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Joined: Jan 2002
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I really see no difference in shooting semi-domestic birds thrown from a tower and driven shooting. Neither are "fair chase" hunting. Of course, exploiting one species to help find and kill another species may not be seen as "fair chase" in some circles. I have no more problem with any of this than I have when cutting into a juicy charcoaled Angus steak. The only thing in this area that I have a problem with is when birds are shot but not eaten.

One thing that I don't understand is why it is not possible to manage birds on a private property in the US exactly the same as in the UK to allow really challenging driven shooting of semi-wild birds here.

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I think hunting pen-raised birds with pointing dogs is better sport than tower shooting but I think both are sporting and ethical. I have done the first but not the tower shoot. I am going to Kansas/Missouri next week to give the tower shoot a try.

Best,

Mike



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Originally Posted By: AmarilloMike
Jakearoo if you changed "killing Elephants for fun" to "hunting Elephants for sport" it would be less provocative and you could still make your point. I spend too much money and sixty or so days a year hunting Quail for sport. I would be offended if someone suggested I killed them for fun.
Best,
Mike


Mike, You know, you make a good point. The sport of hunting is a glorious thing. I have often thought the act of killing at the end of the hunt is bitter sweet. It certainly has a dark side. But, it is the culmination of the whole epic.
I guess with me, seeing a dove or pheasant or duck or even a deer fall is unpleasant but the interaction with nature and all in the chase makes it not too bitter a pill. And then, you get to take home all that wonderful meat and figure out glorious things to do with it. For me, at some tender age I saw films of Elephants shot and collapsing into dead heaps on the ground in rather dramatic fashion. By the way, these were sportsman's films not anti-hunter PITA stuff.
Some on here have said the Elephant populations are now substantial and increasing, and need for responsible thinning is not lost one me. Nor is the concept of hunters taking lots of dollars into those poor economies thus encouraging the protection of the species.
Unfortunately, I still see a magnificent animal that lives a LONG time, shot down dead for insufficient reason. But then, I have never been Elephant hunting either and don't like to shoot guns with huge explosions and hard kicks.
Best Regards, Jake

Last edited by Jakearoo; 02/17/08 01:52 PM.

R. Craig Clark
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Very well put Craig. I can still remember how guilty I felt when I killed my first dove at ten or so. Still have a tinge of it when I dispatch a wounded bird. But as you said the kill is an integral part of the whole.

Best,

Mike

Last edited by AmarilloMike; 02/16/08 09:29 PM.


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I once shot an elephant in my pajama's.

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Originally Posted By: Dennis Wolfe
I once shot an elephant in my pajama's.


How did you manage to get an elephant into your pajamas? Jake


R. Craig Clark
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How he got in my pajama's I'll never know.

Jake, Groucho and I thank you for the setup.


From The Great

Groucho Marx
US comedian with Marx Brothers (1890 - 1977)

Last edited by Dennis Wolfe; 02/16/08 10:35 PM.
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Hunting driven birds is not like a tower shoot.

Birds here are released into the wild in July and are free to go where they want. Most shoots bag only around 30% of released birds by the end of the season. Why? because they can and do walk or fly elsewhere if they feel like it and it is only through care for habitat and providing enough cover and food that birds can be encouraged to stay on your ground.

Organising a beating line is a skillful job and the job gets harder as the birds get wilder and more wiley through the season.
Get it wrong and there will be very few birds heading towards the Guns.

Birds will fly where they decide and when they decide and how they decide. A combination of skillful 'keepering, good beating, good shooting and good pickers-up bring the birds to bag. This is 'sport'in every sense of the word in my mind.

I do agree however, that the quality of driven shoots varies a lot - you need to select your shoot carefully and there are many I would not choose for various reasons, as there are many people I would not want to be in a Gun line with for various reasons.

Driven shooting done properly is a real sport. I struggle to see how tower shooting is.

I have never shot birds from a tower so I do run the risk of accusation that I am talking of something of which I know nothing! However; I have never shot fish in a barrel either yet I know it does not appeal to me.

I would not be comfortable with shooting pen-raised birds just released a few hours ago (birds in the UK are not released once the season has started)in order for me to shoot them either. If that were legal and considered ethical in the UK, I would choose not to do it because I do not consider it sporting.

Please note that I have been careful to make this point only from my own perspective and I offer my thoughts as mine alone. I understand that shooting cultures and opportunities vary and have develped in different ways in different countries. We all make our own judgements according to our sensibilities and our situations.

This is just the perspective of an Englishman who admits to being a bit of a traditionalist and is steeped in his own shooting culture.

Regarding elephant hunting - I am undecided and very curious as to what my reaction will be. I have plenty of opportunities to shoot deer in the Uk but I do not exercise them because it does not really appeal(I have no qualms about it, just no motivatiopn to do it). Bird shooting is 'my bag'.

I'll keep an open mind and I'm sure three weeks in the African bush will be very educational and exciting (and maybe scary?).

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Baron23 Offline OP
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Yeah, but how 'bout dem pictures :-)


Cheers

Stephen
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Pictures are outstanding - a very talented photographer indeed.

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