doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com More Sliding Breech Doubles

Having used my Darne R-16 10 bore against guinea fowl, pigeon, sand grouse and sporting clays, I keep an eye out for the sliding breech topic. Ted S was good enough to start my early eductation on Darne and Charlin.

The other day I acquired an eight page brochure from F. Darne who calls himself "Oldest Son" and helps calibrate his place in the scheme of things. I've offered the interesting brochure to Abby to copy for Cornell Publications holdings. It is undated but describes the new model 1922. The production listed is (free translation from the French with some holes!)

--Model "Populaire" number 54, 12 & 16 gauge, barrels from 68-70, single "poudre T" proof. no automatic ejectors, price 540 francs
--Model "Classique" with automatic ejectors in gauges 12, 16,20 with 10 and 24 available at an extra 30 francs. Made in five grades from A to E.
-- --A some engraving, final proof Powder T. 650 francs
-- --B F. Darne Fils barrels, fine engraving light gun,final proof Powder T. 700francs
-- --C F. Darne Fils barrels, longitudinal polished barrels, piston decoupe (??),English engraving, French gray, final proof Powder T. 780 francs
-- --D as in C but with superior shot results (likely careful barrel regulation), final proof Powder T. 820 francs
-- --E barrels of choice F. Darne Fils, final proof powder T. 900 francs

Then we have the Model T 1922 in five grades, numbers 32-36. This follows on the Model T created in 1920 that he describes as "putting into play the latest progress in modern ballistics whether in applying the new principles for animating barrel-making, or in using the power of modern powders..." a reinforced action, illustrated are obturating discs. The grades vary according to engraving, finish (trempe jaspe) that is likely case color or French gray (gris mat) with prices ranging from 940, 1100, 1400, 1750 and 2000 francs.

--Model Fixe Darne Fils Aine is not subjec to lateral movement due to improvement in the action. It's two grades are number 3 and number 4. wood is very beautifil in no. 3, lightweight. 1,500 francs.
No 4 is finished with extra care and includes a "mi-bloc grande marque?) 1,650 francs.

Model Platines (lockplates) Darne Fils Aine. His Highest grade that uses detachable locks. Designation numbers continue from the Model Fixe as No. 5 2,200 francs, No. 6, No. 7 and No. 8. All have "mi-bloc" barrels (demi-bloc?) English or art nouveau engravings, with chiseled pistons(?). No. 7 is a special model for pigeon shooting. No. 8 is a "representation of all possible perfection." 3,200 francs.

Finally, the brochure closes with an illustration and description of the shotgun "Rotary" that carries a modest price and uses fixed barrels and a swiveling action. It's grades range from Number 11 to Number 16, all proofed for powder T. with 14 carrying two stamps, 15 carrying four stamps and 16 carrying five stamps (poincons). Prices start at 450 francs and end at 640 francs

Regards

I am very happy to hear that you sent it Abby so that others can obtain a copy. I have done that with several items. I will be sending her some older Beretta catalogs shortly.

Here are 2 of Francique's patents.














This last image is a removable sidelock.

Pete

PeteM

A quick read of the second patent, which is an addition to the first, seems to make it the invention behind his Model Platine with detachable lockplates. Very interesting.

Of note is that his brochure declares, "Thanks to them (those hunters & shooters who procliamed the superiority of his works) our brand, though still young, has conquered d'emblee(?) the sought-after position that it holds in the first rank, and that it will keep by its impeccable workmanship and the happy exploitation of its recent and inimitable patents."

Regards, Tim

Hello
Could you post pictures of some pages ?
Thank you
gg

You may want to have a closer look at that catalog, and see if you can find the word "successeurs" on it anywhere. During the 1930s, a company called Etienne Jallas & Cie was running the show. Several different companies took turns at ownership after eldest son died in 1917. My research in St. Etienne suggested the party was over, circa 1955.
I've had a few guns through here that were marked with different Cie (company) ownership markings, but, most all were also marked with the obligitory "Médaille dór, LYON 1914 (the company won a gold medal at exposition in 1914, for you non French speaking guys) on the barrel flats.
The same sliding breech 1922 models are listed in the 1930s vintage Jallas & Cie catalog, by the way. Also included were four grades of Anson & Deeley boxlocks and two grades of sidelock, one clearly labed a Holland style gun-I'm guessing the towel was getting heavy enough to think about throwing it in by the space taken up by conventional guns in the catalog. By 1947, the sliding breech guns are completely restyled, renamed, and ownership has been transfered yet again. Someone named Jacob Holzer is supplying barrels for the higher grade guns by 1947.
I have seen one of the R action "improved" F. Darne guns that had a rectangle that projected out of the flats, which met a matching rectangle on the guns watertable. This gun, a 12 that had met with a reblue, was distinctly lower quality, not grade, but quality, than a "Classique" model I had at the same time.
If the rectangle improved anything, it wasn't by much.
Best,
Ted

F Darne was the son and successor of Francisque, 1928-48, Interestingly during the Jallas era.
J Holtzer came from Alsace-Lorraine or close by, back packingin the early XIX. Founded a steel company who survived him merged with CAFL in 1953 then Creusot Loire. They were making the very best steel, sometime with their name sometime with a tradename. Commonly seen on Aiglon.
Francisque Darne end up to bought by Verney Carron. I guess after the war, in the 1950's
geoffroy

Hello.
Ted S.
Several memebers referred me your name.
I would be pleased if you could answer some question I have on the different Darne Importer for the US on the french guns forum: http://www.gournetusa.com/forum/
click on "Darne",click on thread "Importer"

I thank you very much

geoffroy

Dear Ted,

Good call. The brochure header notes "Successeurs" following the title, F.DARNE Fils Aine
MOUTHIER & Cie

Here, for M. Gournet are scans of five of the pages:

Regards, Tim

Hello Tim,

Thank you for sharing.

JC

P.S.: Interesting to note that they recommend lower powder charges (10% less) for
best results. They say that considering the rigidity of the model T's, no energy
is lost due to flexing of the gun and consequently less powder gives excellent
results.

The "Bird Hunter" was an R10, in the era that Stoeger was importing Darne guns. The others were "Pheasant Hunter Deluxe" which was an R15 and "Quail Hunter Supreme", which was a V19. These were guns stocked by Stoeger, 12 and 20 on the R10 and R15, 20 and 28 on the V19.

To a one, they are the poorest examples of sliding breech guns ever brought into the country. If they are all you have ever seen, you have my condolences.

Stoeger WOULD order anything you wanted, but, I have no evidence they did much business that way.

The importers and era are as follows.
F.I. (Firearms International, Inc) mid to late 1950s.

Mr. Don White, Dearborn MI, late 1950s, very early 1960s.

Stoeger Arms Corporation, early 1960s, early 1970s.

Firearms Center Inc. later doing business as James Wayne, mid 1970s to late 1970s.

Lorren Thomas LTD, Wes Gilpen was a partner in this company, mid 1980s to early 1990s.

Drumming Stump, Inc (me) early to late 1990s.

JC-If I had to guess, I'd say the bores and chokes on those old guns are pretty damn tight, and somebody realized that 10% less powder helped keep fillings in molars, retinas attached, and bruising to a minimum.

But what do I know?
Best,
Ted