doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Good manners

Gentlemen:
Let me begin by apologizing once more to everyone for the heartburn I have inflicted by the sharing of a personal story that I originally perceived to epitomize the kind of frienship and respect the majority of the members of this forum have for each other. Never in my wildest imaginations could I have foreseen the negative response the sharing of that experience would elicit from Rob. And although I have met a fair number of the members of this forum, Rob and I have never met; yet I remain convinced that Rob is a wonderful person regardless of any disagreement he and I may have experienced over this issue. I also believe his original response was well meaning and intended to be both educationsl and cautionary; as it now appears that my use of the phrase "game plan" was possibly catalyst for Rob's reaction. At the time I thought,and perhaps foolishly in retrospect, that any reader would easily recognize my use of that phrase was in reference to my correspondence with Harry as regards my earlier correspondence with Ross; and was therefore never intended, nor should have been intrepreted as code words for a "scheme" to fix a price or rig an auction. It was simply intented to reiterate a previously noted event without having to state that fact twice; I had bid on the item first and Ross, on his own volition, volunteered not to bid until bidding exceeded my personal reserve. At NO time did anyone EVER conspire to keep the bid price low; and I honestly expected the final bid to far exceed my max!

Obviously, Rob's perception of these events differed vastly from my own, thus he was inspired to respond with what he obviously perceived to be a well-meaning, cautionary warning. And although it is entirely possible that I over-reacted; the portion of that response which stuck in my craw was as follows: "What you all did is termed Collusion, a bidding ring, and is usually against the law". Perhaps Rob would rephrase that statement at this point, but there is no subtlety contained within that remark as stated, as its intended meaning is very clear; and further, it left absolutely no doubt in the reader's mind that all were guilty and convicted as charged! Therefore I ask this question of all you reasonable men, had such a charge been directed at you, and had your reputation and your character been publicly impuned before your colleagues; how would you have reacted?

My immediate reaction was to just let it go; then I remembered a comment Ross had made to one of my comments after the auction had closed. At that time I was in a state of euphoria; and, having already seen this thread, "Manners"; told Ross I couldn't wait to share this wonderful story as an actual illustration of the fellowship and gentlemanly manners enjoyed and demonstrated by forum members. Ross, due to the fact that such behavior is just normal routine for a man of his character, suggested that I not do so. Now, and with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight, I wish I had listened. Had I done so my public integrity would not be in question, and Ross could have avoided having his reputation smeared also. Under such circumstances I felt I had no other choice than to defend myself and these other fine men from what were totally groundless accusations!

Some of you know me personally, and many of you don't; but those who do know me know that I am a man of honor and integrity, a man of his word, and someone who has always been generous with his time and knowledge. I am told by many that I (or my name)is well known among those within the double gun franternity, and that my reputation is always discussed in a positive manner. If this is true, it is certainly not something that just happened; it was earned via the expenditure of many hours of effort and uncounted dollars expended on "research materials". Along the way I was privileged to meet many wonderful and advanced collectors; folks like Bill McPhail, Daryl Halquist, Russ Ruppel, Chris Schotz, and so many others (you know who they are) who were always kind enough to be my mentors during those early years as I ran a gauntlet of misinformation and unscrupulous dealers. I took the information and inspiration received from these good men and built on that base. Since then I have done everything I can possibly think to do to add to the knowlege base of the American double gun, as well as promote the preservation and continued use of these wonderful relics from our early history. To date these effors and activities have included such things as publishing research in the DGJ, the LCSCA newsletter, and on the web; serving as a board member of the LCSCA; the introduction of photographer Terry Allen to the double gun fraternity, contribuions to other authors, and the creation/organization of various double gun shooting events and competitions. I regularily receive and respond to requests for opinions and information on various guns, provide collectors leads on guns/items for their collection, and sometime actually connect buyers and sellers. In all those efforts there has yet to a single instance where I have ever asked for, or received a special favor; nor have I charged a fee for any information shared. Don't think for an instant that noting this background data is for the purpose of tooting my own horn, as there are members of this forum who have contributed far more to the double gun fraternity than I ever can; but is instead to emphasize why my personal reputation and integrity, as well as that of Ross and Bobby, is so important and therefore must be defended.

Unfortunately the events ocurring as the result of my well-intended post cannot be altered at this point, but from them we can gather much useful insight. Rather than posting a public condemnation, had Rob chosen a more gentlemanly approach and contacted me directly via my personal mail; we would have had the opportunity to resolve any differences and misunderstandings privately. This would have been a far more professional approach; and had he done so, the heartburn and consternation associated herewith would have been avoided. Perhaps this is the lesson we should all take from this example; if you have a potential issue with a fellow forum member, deal with that individual directly first, then consider other possible actions.

As to the incident itself, Rob has publicly apologized to me; and I have publicly apologized for my own poor writing abilities, my personal ignorance, and for ever believing in the first place that the sharing of what I viewed as a positive example and so appropriate to the "Manners" thread would be a good idea. I am in complete agreement with those who have publicly stated their desire to see this sad and unfortunate episode to come to its final and merciful ocnclusion; and further, I sincerely hope that no one following this thread harbors any ill will towards Rob, Ross, Bobby, or yours truly.
Best Regards to All,
Tom

j0e, when Chambers gets his release papers, we'll have hell to pay for that "dress-up" bit!

Lowell yer a Gentleman in my book...even if you have poor mannerz.

Tom I've got some first hand experience with Sporting Collectable auctions where I've heard of people asking "favors" of other bidders.
Once at a banquet at the Grand Ole Opry I wittnessed a guy get up walk over and literally beg a well known Nashville Lady to "let him win the item"...she did because that's how she was.

When your bid was topped you should never have asked someone to back off on their bidding.
Bottom line....You did and you should've kept quiet about it. Don't worry about it.

Jack et.al., I am with the Old Coot. Jake

With all due respect Homeless, and I offer mine in spite of the fact that you show me no respect at all: you are absolutely wrong brother! At NO TIME was anyone ever asked "to back off on their bidding". At no time did I ever ask "favors" of other bidders". The fact that two individuals voluntarily elected not to bid against me was most likely due to the fact that they wished to demonstrate their respect for me personally. With all honesty, and considering the kinds of tripe you regularly post to this forum; how many of your peers would be willing to show you such respect? As to your latest insult, I refuse to further defend my actions as I have accurately stated and restated the events exactly as they occured; and further, Ross, with whom I have had no contact since the auction ended, verified my account of those events once he became aware of the the baseless insinuations being directed towards me (although I am convinced your twisted logic has us "covering" for each other). Obviously my being labeled a criminal failed to adequately brighten your boring day; so in your unquestioned judgment you have now determined that I am also a liar "Bottom line....You did and you should've kept quiet about it". It seems rather odd to me that someone such as yourself, someone who has absolutely no knowlege of this matter except as related herein, can make such a slanderous accusation with even the minutest amount of credibility. But such behavior is nothing new from you, or for that matter from certain other individuals who seem to take great delight in posting their faceless, long-distance insults directed at others. This kind of rude behavior, this kind of judgmental I'm-always-right-and-everyone-else-is-always-wrong-but-if-I'm-wrong-I'm-still-right attitute has poisoned this well far too many times and alienated many in the process. Were it not for the fact that such behavior is totally uncalled for, so over the line, and so disgustingly pathetic, it would be commical. But this is a big ole world Homeless, and I believe with all my heart that you have the right to believe whatever your twisted mind leads you to conclude. And above all, I sincerely hope that you are as insulted by my post as I was by yours; and also, please understand that, more than anything else, I want your red-faced response to reek with new and even more vitriolic and slanderous insults, as these will serve only to reveal more of your true character. As for me personally, throughout this entire episode I have conducted myself in a professional manner; steadfastly defending my honor and my integrity, as well as that of my peers. Anyone who wishes to waste the time required to read the groundless insults and inuendos contained herein can, and will believe whatever they choose; but frankly, the judgement of an individual such as yourself is worthless and means nothing to me or anyone who knows me. I wish you a very pleasant evening!
Tom Archer

The title of this thread is?

An attack against me is not going to help your defense.

Recoil Rob had every right to post what he did.

How about Much Ado About Nothing - or has that been used already?

Head to head competition makes for a well earned gun.
Makes you wonder if the seller didn't get short changed.
There have been some questionable deals brought to light here of late. Maybe a pawnshop would be a better bet when some of you guys come snoopin' around.

My sincere apology is inserted here. Kindest regards to all