Originally Posted By: revdocdrew
Agoston's Guns for the Sultan is much more about cannons than shoulder weapons, and little more is said about the transfer of pattern welded technology from the Ottomans to Europe. So we still don't know who brought the first pattern welded musket barrel to...where?...Spain to France to Liege? Hungary to Germany to Liege? Both directions? Nor when?


Drew,

The question I was seeking an answer to was, "Amongst the French and Belgian makers, who was the 1st in each country to produce a repeatable, recognizable pattern and bring it to market?" A very narrow question. Perhaps the records exist somewhere in France or Belgium, but the information available currently to me does not lend itself to answering the question.

I think your question is much broader. At that level, I no longer look for a single path. What Ágoston brings to the table, in my view, is the broad influence of the Ottoman Empire. The foundry established in Istanbul employed craftsman from around the mediterranean.

We know that the Italians were actively trading with the Ottomans in the late 1500's. Ágoston also talks about the empire in Hungary. We know from Elgood that Hungarian gunmaker Caspar Hartmann was making damascus in 1634. We know from "Espingarda Perfeyta" that twist was being produced in Portugal around 1715. By 1770 we are seeing sxs flintlocks with twist barrels from Liege and just a few years later from St. Etienne. Gaier points to even earlier in the 1700's but does not provide documentation. By 1790 the English are working on patents and doing metallurgical studies of wootz. So the technology was spreading across Europe.

Have you seen a European produced damascus or twist barrel that dates earlier than this? Perhaps it will require a road trip.

Back to Ágoston. It is very common, looking at American gun makers to find them clustered around arsenals, which were government foundries. I believe that eventually, we will see the same thing within the Ottoman Empire. If the records ever surface that is.

Put another way. I no longer look for a river by which the technology traveled. I think of it more as a slow flood that worked it's way under all the doors. Perhaps I am wrong, not a 1st.

Pete