doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Coming up zero on an interesting French gun.

PJ, they are definitely better at gun making than at translating! :-)

And they do checker:


JC

Actually, Bob, if you had ever read anything I ever wrote on the subject, you would know I have never called ANY sliding breech gun marked with anything other than Darne a "cheap copy". The reason is, some of them are quite literally BETTER than an actual Darne. Good enough to be awarded gold medals at European expositions, which, I've posted before, but, you seem to have missed. I've also posted that you have to weigh the individual guns attributes before passing judgement on it's quality. Making note that a gun is a lower grade DOESN"T mean it is cheap.

Fransisque Darne opened his shop in 1910 Bob. Sadly, his life ended abruptly in 1917. Not much time to patent anything, Bob.

I've only posted that little bit of trivia here about 20 times, Bob.

He did not patent guns "his whole life". His company manufacured 1894 Darne patent copies while he was alive, and continued manufacturing for many years after he was dead, with the same name, under different owners.


Some of those owners were not concerned enough about quality to be awarded gold medals. And some let quality slip during their tenure.

I asked for an actual photo of a Dactu, which was not forthcoming from a different site. It came from one of our members here, which, I knew it would.


Did you read what I posted? It seems doubtful to me.

The exhaulted me ( your words, I never claimed to be expert at anything) is of the position that Francisque Darne guns were built in a different factory, by different people, in different grades, in different patents, during different eras, and are NOT the same as Darne guns.They are not Regis Darne guns, they are Francisque Darne guns, and to call them the same is to ignore history. You do a disservice to any further learning on the subject to call them the same thing. To use YOUR words, "I have the paper to prove it".
And, I HAVE pointed that difference out at gunshows, and been thanked for it.

It would seem to me that by posting photos of snippets of retailers catalogs, and claiming it proves Charlin built Darne patent guns, claiming F. Darne guns are really Regis Darne guns, and making statements like "Francisque Darne made and patented guns for perhaps his whole life", you might need to rethink the statement "how little we all know".

Some of us know a little better than that.
Best,
Ted

Ted,
I think your experiencing a rectal/cranial inversion...It was YOU who inferred that guns made by Darne Fils aren't real Darnes...Not me..

I'm the one who refers catagorically to all sliders as "Darne's" ...whether it's by design, patent, or lineage....the same way I call some guns an Anson & Deeley boxlock even though the gun was made in Belgium...just like the rest of America...to American gun collectors, sliders are Darnes of one form or another...

You see Ted, if a sliding breech fixed barrel shotgun were to pass in front of me, and the name on the gun was marked Lebel, I would draw some line of distinction...If the gun says some hardware store name or the name of some finishing house, I would see that as a barreled action built on Darne patents that had EXPIRED and were being produced and distributed by the St. Etienne arsenal to artisans throughout the region, in much the same way the St. Etienne arsenal did when the Verney Carron patents ran out on the Helice.

Sure Verney Carron held the Grip Helico patent, but when it ran out, the design became public domain and the St. Etienne arsenal was free to produce them...and anyone was free to buy them, even Darne...when any or all of of Darne's patents ran out, they too became public domain and anybody could produce the Darne designed guns...

The right to draw the design lines doesn't automatically fall to you...and the fact that I don't have some psychic awareness of YOUR notions hardly seems important to me.

Oh here's one or two of those patents that you say Francisque didn't have time to get...

This cover sheet actually represents two numbers 13898 of 1911, and 412355 that was issued in 1910 and applied for on the 5th of February in 1910...

So although Francisque first appears on the radar (patent record)in early 1910, you have INFERRED (slick) that he merely opened his shop in 1910...as though he was just deciding what he wanted to do in life...you're an artist Ted



Before you get your panties in a bunch...yes I can see that 13898 is an addition to 412355 ...but that doesn't negate the evidence (by further distraction), as you like to do

Let me see if I have your perspective correct...

Francisque Darnes are not Darnes

Francisque had no time to get any patents...

Beagle's gun is dead...(I heard he's glued it and shooting it already)

and you don't want to backwards into a gun like that (inferring a cheap copy)

ALL the French records were lost in the war and there won't be any forth coming books or catalogs for everyone to learn from...
I guess we're all stuck with 3 D's...the Darne Dynamic Dou...without the insight of the 3 D's, Darne history would be lost

Do I have it about right...is this the paradigm you guy's have put forth? The one I just can't get my mind around? The one no one can add to or deviate from.

Then what is the reason for the cheap shots against me and why do you turn your nose up to the Darne USA forum...

I think it's the partially false paradigm that you have created

That was a good one....rather stinky but good.



I hope the Beegle used Gorilla Glue....

I'm really having trouble finding your pOint...what's a false paradigm.

Are the good to eat ?

Robert, before we reach any conclusions about information contained on the partial page you posted above--and remembering what you tried to convince us of the last time you similarly posted a partial page--would you be willing to post the rest of the information concerning that particular patent, so we can determine exactly what it was that F. Darne patented?

Could it be a partial paradigm ?

Larry,
Must I do all your research work? I have already GIVEN you the patent numbers..look it up...

Why would I do want to do the the least little thing for you? Am I supposed to help you by posting the data you request...so you can twist the data I post, to further insult and bash me?

Members with your vicious underlying motives need to find their own ammunition...

Unbunch your panties and do a little research on your own...

Oh . . . my mistake, Robert. I thought you were actually going to post complete information this time. That's what we try to do here: share knowledge amongst participants.

And as for twisting the data you post, you were the guy who posted a partial page from a dealer's catalog, which you tried to pass off as a Charlin catalog. Showing a photo of a Darne clone almost certainly not made by Charlin, which you tried to pass off as being a Charlin-produced gun. If Chubby Checker hadn't beaten you to it, I'd give you credit for inventing "The Twist".

What you may want to do, Robert, assuming you wish to continue your research on things French or concerning which the French language is involved, is take about a 6 month sabbatical and learn the language. Of course that would eliminate an excuse you've used for misleading us . . .