doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Benefit of FULL choke

I have been wondering about the benefit of full choke lately. Many of the older SXS guns that I'm drawn to have at least one barrel choked full, and in fact measure as such.

I'm an upland hunter and target shooter, not into early mornings in a frozen goose blind, or smeared in camoflage grease waiting for a tom turkey.

Everything I've read, from Brister to McIntosh, says full choke is ineffective at best. Since so much shot is deformed, it's worse than a more open choke, say modified. Perhaps in pre-shot cup ammunition days, there may have been some benefit, but with modern ammunition it appears unecessary and may in fact give much worse patterns.

So what's the benefit of a full ckoke barrel, if any?

If there is no benefit, why do some stubbornly insist that opening a full choke barrel harms the value of a "shootable" SXS?

The marketing was for a single shotgun that would be useful in all situations. In this 1913 Lefever ad, they use "Trap, Brush, Field, Blind" So one gun for upland, waterfowl, rabbit, trap, deer, etc. While it does not state it, the 1911 Fox ad implies the same thing. If you want to "Reach the Far Ones" then you want full choke.

You have to remember that there is a difference between some one who loves to shoot and use old guns and the dyed in the wool collector.


Pete

Mark,
I have one Parker with a .040" full choke barrel. The right barrel is .005". I have found the FC barrel useful in some upland situations where a second shot is needed on a small covey or fleeing quail. My experience is that second shots from a double trigger gun on Calif quail usually means they are out pretty far (thus my pref for a single trigger on quail). With 8's and 7 1/2's, my gun will pattern tightly and not blow apart, and provide extended range for those quail that are doing their terrain following highspeed flight getaways.

Heavy constriction is more effective with fine shot. Large shot sizes are better served by less choke constriction to throw a full choke pattern.

It's no trick at all to achieve full choke patterns from a .015 barrel if you use large plated shot, a target type shotcup, and no more than moderate MV with slowish powders. Polyethylene buffer helps, too. My first Bismuth patterns showed full choke patterns no matter what the constriction. Ditto with steel.

My Beretta trap gun has constrictions of .037 and .043. Marked IM/F. Not obsolete for that application.

Tight barrels are a result of salesmanship and peer pressure. Nobody wanted to have a gun that wouldn't shoot as 'far' as their hunting companion, if he could effectively use the capability or not. Same thing today... note the 3.5" 12 ga.

I believe the above comment is most accurate - no one wanted to show up with anything less than a 'full' choke. Doing so meant your gun was not as serious as the others. It's the same reason the 12 gauge has been the gun of choice for so long - no one wants to be thought of as less of a man for carrying a small bore.

It's like showing up at the drags with quiet exhaust - everyone knows you're a wimp even if your car is the fastest.

Full chokes are quite usable in most cases...you just have to learn to slow down and let whatever you're shooting at fly away a little further before squeezing the trigger. IMO most guys who are unhappy with full chokes are shooting under the false idea that you have to shoot as soon as you are ready. They need to shoot when they're most likely to hit the target. The exception to this of course in heavy cover when your shot would be obscured.

Greg,
I would say you are for the most part right about showing up with a 12g...up until recent times. Same goes for full chokes. Many hunters are finding the benefits of more open chokes. When I was young, nobody I knew bought any shotgun with more open choke than modified with most being full chokes. Sure real shotgun enthusiasts knew better much longer ago, but it wasn't widely practiced by the common 'one gun' man.

But times are changing. Open chokes are the norm in upland. I find more and more smallbores in the upland field than ever. Not only that, not many seem to badmouth or make light of them. I hunted the last few years in SD for phez with a 20g and haven't even gotten a comment.

But the one thing I've learned about hitting things from clay shooting is that it's always more likely that I'll hit something the nearer it is, regardless of choke. My experience in waiting to let a bird get further out for a tight choke is that my percentages go way down.

Before plastic wads, you needed more constriction to get the same tight patterns you can get with less constriction using good, modern loads. The other point, of course, is that many "vintage" doubles were made for all-around hunting purposes--furred game as well as feathers, maybe peppering the fox as he scampered away from the chicken coop. Also, there was a period of time--before the pheasant was well-established across its current range, but after prairie chickens had been greatly reduced--that there simply was not a lot of upland bird hunting available in significant parts of this country. But there were plenty of waterfowl, and with the old lead waterfowl loads, M/F made a lot of sense.

And for upland hunting, I agree with Chuck. A full choke and modern shells give most people a whole lot more range than they can use. And if you hit a bird with full inside 30 yards--and most upland birds are shot inside 30 yards (although not necessarily shot AT!)--the result may not be pretty. I have a pair of Brit guns, one of which was originally choked .040 in the L barrel. I was getting 90%+ patterns at 35 yards from that barrel. Since I had no intention to use it for turkeys, I had that barrel opened a good bit.

Few people are true full choke shots. Breaking a clay pigeon at fifty yards is cause for a smile and congratulations, but hitting a pheasant at that range, in full afterburn, is more often quite sad and unproductive.
Best,
Ted

Experts on Guns and Shooting
George Teasdale Teasdale-Buckell
Sampson Low, Marston & Co. 1900
http://books.google.com/books?id=4xRmHkr...ns+and+Shooting

"Possibly the most remarkable measured feat with the shot-gun ever recorded was that which Lord Walsingham was so kind as to send to us in 1887. The performance was two rights and two lefts at wild duck in full feather. The measured distances were all over eighty yards and ran up to 112 yards...with...3 1/4 dr. Hall's 'Field B', 1 1/8 oz No. 5 Derby shot, 12b cylinder Purdey (not choked.)"

My 08' VH was choked .006 and .038 (note 'was'), and most c. 1900 Continental guns were cylinder and 'choke bore' or full.

I wonder if they actually recovered, and ate the ducks?

Easy to say, "they came down, nice shot", another to eat them with mashed potatos and gravy.
Best,
Ted