doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion Classic & Custom Single Barreled Sporting Rifles @ doublegunshop.com interesting Mauser on gunbroker

I saw this on gunbroker and followed it, if you can get past the ugly modern stock, you may see some interesting things.

Interesting Mauser

Even with the less than wonderful stock, I think somebody still got a good buy at the end price.

ok, so what are the interesting things you see in this rifle?

It looks like a commercial Oberndorf sporter made for import to the US.

I agree, but what else? Look carefully.

Sold for a wopping $605.

I'm guessing you're referring to the floor plate and set triggers? The rear sight looks like an early Pacific? I think I'd dispense with that unless the holes aren't usable for a Lyman 48. The barrel and front sight are interesting, the ramp is a Sedgley? And I saw the S stamp on the barrel, does that also signify Sedgley?

Unfortunately, it looks like someone buffed the bejeezus out of it when they reblued it. I'm assuming it came over as something other than an 06, since it's missing the cutout on the front ring.


Tim

It 100 % DOES NOT.
Have you ever seen a commercial Mauser Oberndorf sporting rifle in the flesh?
Not?! Mmhhm, thought so.

Carcano

Yup, I saw those details, the Sedgley proofmark, caliber markings, front sight and barrel band. I don’t believe I have seen a Sedgley marked Mauser before. The sight is a Redfield.

Carcano, Even if I were 100% wrong, why are you trying to sound like Keith? We don't need another one. Yes. I see the barrel is Sedgley. The action though is a commercial Oberndorf. So, 50% wrong?? Have a nice day.

I wouldn’t say 50% wrong, you correctly identified the side rail markings, which is pretty important. There were other things that you missed, but that doesn’t make you wrong.

It's a restocked Sedgley, and I can't believe it sold for that price. The things I miss. The normal Sedgley discount for a low numbered action wouldn't apply here. My Sedgley was extremely accurate and I miss it every day, I bet this rifle is a ripper. I also wouldn't assume it was stocked in Europe - could easily have been in the US in the 60's or 70's. The floorplate and double set triggers have been available on the market for decades, I remember seeing them when I was a kid. It certainly could be a European restock but I'd want to have more evidence than just the bottom metal. Interesting that it has the long cocking piece - I don't know if all civilian Oberndorf actions had that feature? The nicely rounded barrel band made me think Sedgley right off. And the aftermarket front sight is less common for him but mine had the same, mine was a Lyman, this could be a Redfield, they're very similar. He usually used the simple raised blocky ramp.

Did anyone take a good look at the front ring? It's not easy to tell from the pictures, but it looks like the ring was scrubbed. On a commercial sporting action, I don't know why that would have been considered necessary.


Tim

The triggers and bottom metal aren't after market items. They're native to the action.

Yup, looks to be a pretty standard type B action, triggers and bottom metal.

I would have expected to see the correct pear shaped bolt knob.



Also agree with Tim that the top of the receiver ring appears scrubbed. The thumb notch in the left rail isn't definitive, but may point toward a military action. In addition, the font of the Waffenfabrik Mauser- Oberndorf stamp doesn't look like other Oberndorf sporters. Note the distinct difference especially in the letters "A", "M", "R", and "K".

We certainly know this one has been worked on by someone other than Mauser. And nobody here has it in hand to verify dimensions or other small details. Fake Oberndorf Sporters aren't unknown. Triggers and bottom metal are easy enough to replace, so who knows for sure? But we do know Billy is too blinded by his TDS to see small details, and was 100% wrong about Russia-Russia-Russia and the Mueller investigation. And I'm happy to see I live rent-free in his head. So I'd be interested in hearing more from Carcano concerning his reasons for thinking this gun might not be 100% Kosher.

The BU each under a crown on the front ring is a commercial proof mark, the action itself is a commercial action. I believe the bolt is pear shaped as well but it being polished bright and the poor photography make it hard to be certain.

Good eye Bill and Tim.

It was very likely a factory Mauser 30-06 sporting rifle these were marked u.s 1906 and aren't to uncommon, They were very poorly received and I think Edward Crossman wrote the article really trashing them for most importantly the bore dimensions being fairly out of wack. I would say because of this he owner sent it out to Sedgley to fit a new barrel, this is a service they offered and there are many examples of rifles just fitted with a sedgley barrel. Pretty cool gun, The sight is an Armstrong also a later addition. Sedgley did catalog a magnum Mauser but I don't think this has any thing to do with that.

If you have a copy of Nick Strobel's book "Old Gunsights", you can see that the sight is a Redfield 100-M, production began in the late 1920's and ended in 1952.

yeah looks like it is 100-m, would still say its much later replacement to original.

Is there anything else of note? its a decent project but I don't see anything to unusual?

I went back and took another look at this rifle, and the more I look at it the worse it looks. I don't think it was originally an 06 because it's missing the notch in the front ring. And the front ring does not look good to me at all, why was it buffed clean? And who would remove a Mauser Banner from an original commercial rifle? Why does the front ring look like it may have had a crest that wasn't completely buffed out ? And why does the barrel have a barrel band? The photographs of the forend show no suggestion of a matching screw attached to it. Who would put that stock on that action, and not put a scope on it?

I think this was just a bunch of parts cobbled together for a sale. The shop that had this for sale sells a lot of guns. I'm sure they know what a commercial Mauser is and what it's worth. Look at auction number 1202329386. Look at the difference in the pictures and the description, and notice they talk about matching numbers and bore condition. If this rifle was legitimate, I think they would be talking it up and they would know what to say. And I suspect their pictures would show a lot more of what's important.

I guess that's my .02 cents worth.

Tim

I think it's because it's a worked over restocked Sedgley. The barrel band is Sedgley. The barrel is Sedgley. The front sight is typical. Sedgley ground off the original serial numbers on the Springfield actions he used, I don't see why he wouldn't grind off the front ring on this. Everything about the rifle, including the unblued bolt handle, looks like a Sedgley that someone restocked with different bottom metal some time in the 50's or 60's maybe. Look at the Bishop and Fajen stock catalogs from the 50's.

I agree with Ryan, the Sedgley things caught my eye. I wonder if anyone here has a copy of Jon Speed's book and can date the receiver, I read it to be 90824.

I really don't know if the receiver has been buffed or not, that could be due to lighting, fingerprints, etc. I just don't know.

here is another commercial mauser that was later reworked by sedgley and then also sadly butchered on aswell

https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...mauser-in-7x57.cfm?gun_id=101403798#lg-1




[quote=Tim in PA missing the notch in the front ring. [/quote]

Very common to see them with out notch, They probably added it after some customer complaints eventually.

https://auctions.morphyauctions.com/lot-452510.aspx
https://collectorsfirearms.com/prod...06-r21566/#mz-expanded-view-479334957730

Sedgley ground the numbers off low number Springfield so he could sell them, I think most people viewed low number Springfield's back then the the way most people today view Damascus barrel shotguns. Considering the cost of genuine commercial actions, I have a hard time believing he would just willy-nilly grind the Mauser Banner off.

I looked at the rifle on Guns International, and unless I'm just missing something, I don't see anything about that action that indicates it's commercial.


Tim

What are your thoughts on the clearly visible commercial proof marks?

set triggers and very bare looking front right but its hard to tell with scope mount covering side, Could also be ww1 capture. either way similar fate.

By the looks of what may be a Crest that has been removed from the top of the recv'r ring,,I suspect those remaining marks are from a dovetailed scope base installed at one time
then removed and the space welded up. Maybe the base left in place and welds run around the edges to fuse the metal and base in place.
The marks left behind form straight lines and when looking at the pics that show that area, they do (to me) show the outline of a dovetailed scope base.

Welded up and then faced off. the less than perfect job left those small void lines behind.
Sedgley used welding quite a lot in his workings.

Well, I went back and looked, and all I saw were the Sedgley marks, a number on the safety, and a hint of something peeking from behind the scope mount. If there's clearly visible proof marks on that rifle, please tell me where they're at.

Edit - if you're talking about the rifle in the original topic of discussion, and not the rifle in your quote that I was referring to, Mauser was known to repurpose leftover military contract actions for commercial purposes, so it isn't out of the realm of possibility, that that rifle originally had a foreign military crest. But from the lousy picture, that rifle still looks poorly scrubbed to me. Without a good close up I don't think there's any way to say one way or the other.

Let's be clear, I am nothing resembling an authority on Mauser actions. The more I learn, the more I realize how much more there is to learn, and it just seems to get more confusing.

Tim

Picture 17 shows the "U" under a crown and the "B" under a crown, directly in front of the Oberndorf serial number 90824, which falls right in line with other sporting rifles in the 1924-25 timeline according to the Jon Speed book "Original Oberndorf Sporting Rifles".

I believe that you are correct, that looks like a filled in dovetail to me.

Several features of this action indicate clearly that it started out as a commercial one. It has the clear commercial legend on the receiver rail; it has the standard commercial bottom metal with the factory lever release floorplate and signature double set triggers; it has the pear -shaped bolt handle standard on all commercial actions. There really isn't any thing to debate here.

Agreed, I also would like to see one of these "repurpose leftover military contract actions for commercial purposes" turned in to Oberndorf side rail marked commercial gun, I have never seen such a thing.


it looks like sedgley rebarreled / reworked a fair number of mausers I was able to find 3 others on invaluable sales history. I don't see they why many wouldn't be commercial guns there is no sort of conspiracy here.

https://www.invaluable.com/search?upcoming=false&query=sedgley%2520mauser&keyword=sedgley%2520mauser
one of them is kurz length action turned into a .22 hornet


Notably 2 of 3 retain the factory Mauser / germanic stock and are clearly commercial rifles, the 3rd was restocked and with no pictures it could go either way.

Let's not forget the importance of the long cocking piece. I think the only military action that had that was the Turkish, if I'm correct. Could certainly be added, but it was often used as a base for a dovetail sight. How frequently was that a feature of commercial actions?

Indeed, several, if not many of the Mauser small ring transitional test Mausers were repurposed as commercial rifles; I have serial #100 that was done and has a Rigby marked barrel now.
Mike

Yeah I saw those proofmarks, and it looked like it some stippling was there also, but I wasn't talking about that rifle. If you go back and read my post, you will see I was referencing the rifle on the Guns International link in 375whelens post. And while you're at it, you can tell me how that one is clearly a commercial 98.

Separately, regarding a different post, Jon Speed said that Mauser used leftover Gew 98's to build 8.15 target rifles, with commercial proof marks. Any argument over there existence is with him.


Tim

We are obviously talking about two different rifles, carry on.

of course rifles got built from repurposed and overrun actions, You posted "repurpose leftover military contract actions for commercial purposes, so it isn't out of the realm of possibility, that that rifle originally had a foreign military crest"


I have never seen a factory oberndorf mauser sporting rifle that was converted to commercial use by way of grinding off a foreign crest, in this cause very crudely.

My mistake not quoting you in full the first time.


The 7x57 gun may or may not have a commercial action with the photos its impossible to tell for sure, that leaves of 5 sedgley mausers presented 3 being undoubtedly commercial actions and 2 are inconclusive.

WW1 saw lot less bring back rifles but I wouldn't doubt Sedgley would build you a rifle off one if provided.