doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Winchester Staynless. 12 ga. wooden ammo box

I've had this box for 45 years, given to me in 1979 by a friend from Vietnam in Missouri. My wife found it in the garage and has confiscated it for a keepsake box. I'm assuming it is original (except perhaps for the hinges and lock?) Don't think it's worth much but interesting that wife took an ammo box for her keepsakes.

Sold in the 70’s and 80’s. Very common. Nice box.

Hinges and hasp are original too, IMO.

Thanks. Looking at Google AI it had this to say:

The Super-X / Super Speed Connection: Winchester introduced the Super-X brand in the 1920s as a high-velocity, hard-hitting game load. Pairing Super-X powder performance with Staynless non-corrosive priming made these shells immensely popular for waterfowl and upland hunting because they protected valuable shotgun bores.

The "Staynless" Innovation: Introduced by Winchester in the late 1920s and heavily marketed through the 1930s and 1940s, "Staynless" was the trademarked name for Winchester's non-corrosive, mercury-free priming compound. Before this, primers used chemicals that left behind corrosive salts, rusting shotgun barrels if they weren't cleaned immediately.

Physical Construction: Shotshells from this specific "Staynless" era feature rolled paper hulls (often red or yellow, coated in wax for waterproofing) and a high brass base. They predate the modern plastic hulls that Winchester introduced in the 1960s..

So no real way to tell the age of the box - which I always liked because of its dovetailed sides and burned in lettering. It could be anywhere from 100 to 50 years old - perhaps the clasps might tell the story. I'm assuming the "3" indicates 3" shells, which seem to have been standard? At least it has a purpose now.

By the time Olin Corp. was putting the Winchester and Western names together on ammo boxes and cases/flats (and disgraced the Super-X name by putting it on Winchester marked ammo!) all the actual in use cases/flats were cardboard. There were two of these cases in the Ward's Auction that closed yesterday. One of this style sold for $23 --

https://www.wardscollectibles.com/a...nchester-super-x-wood-crate-12-ga-59962/

That is a nice box. But the age is from the mid 80’s to the 2010’s . I won quite a few of them at trapbshoots in that era. Still have some sitting around and have given more away. They also had other logos on them including Remington and others iirc. It’s not a crate Winchester shipped ammo in. All true shipping Super X crates had nailed on tops. I have them as well. It was a promotional item licensed by Winchester and sold empty. I recall seeing them sold in Orvis and Kevin’s type catalogs. They are great for storing and transporting ammo or dog gear.

Makes sense to nail ammunition boxes shut as was done in the military. You'd also assume there should be some sort of lot number or shipping stamped on it. So I'll assume it to be a reproduction (with really nice patina) or with added hinges and clasps.

There is one on e-bay with the same hinges/clasps - but no other info:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/178343433792?itmmeta=01M1877WJ3VWQYMZN2W9VB82ZR&hash=item298618d640:g:VpMAAeSw1stqZQes&itmprp=enc%3AAQALAAAA4DKQclQvzFwZQpmMrsO4LuroZFgp1Jw56i6ekQG7GU3wtD1wCIG%2BfVT31CcZjNKp9ASE0dL6KasviV8xzR9ahwf9DMAPHlSv%2Bv%2BxzN3VoHh0KIvrnJ3bwYQLmfsU9m1EU2e2fP1lOoIyJeFj4bYkXyK%2B6oMMQr3VExY%2B6lzv9tqeQbu%2BquBa1MjQXSxUtK5F41uGh%2FbpaXuFsTtSrSR5zmtvVlaZiUJMc2qa6pDif9HdJTEZy7TO9RcSNKd394u26LjmTeKcJ%2BP7tDe96qvm2XKh%2FoRAeHSjofvmgrCH81%2BM%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR57Jn4eKaA

Google AI says this about the "3" (which seems quite doubtful - surely this is the length of the shot shell): The "3" Marking: The number "3" stenciled near the gauge information typically denoted a 3-dram equivalent powder charge, a standard power measurement for vintage 12-gauge hunting loads.

Gene, “Makes sense to nail ammunition boxes shut as was done in the military”.

Well, at the Battle of Isandlwana in 1879 the reserve Martini-Henry ammunition was packed in stout wooden crates which could be opened with a large screwdriver.

Worked well, until the neighbours called unexpectedly, there were a lot of crates to open, only one screwdriver and Death was staring you in the face.

Things changed after that. The typical .303 SAA box lid was secured with 2 clips, opened easily with a boot heel, to expose the grab handle to rip open the inner tin lining to get to 250 rounds in chargers and 50 round bandoliers (or 288 rounds in 32 round cartons).

Para - that's the conventional story about Islandlwana. . .but others say there was plenty of ammo till it ran out. And others that the Impis got close because of the clouds of black powder smoke (which led to the introduction of smokeless powders).

Nevertheless.. . .stories of African conflicts are always interesting - the Boar War and the "Khaki election" in UK being some of my favorites. Having been involved in not a few in the 20th and 21st century, including dealing with some of Mike Hoare's 5th commando lads, Rhodesia Light Infantry and the "mercenary bars" in Brussels, Savimbi, UNITA and the MPLA (with Cold War implications) and some of the recent stuff going on across the Sahel with ISIS and AQIM along with what has to be called a Fulani revolt covered by religion, etc.. . .perhaps not so "romantic" - just plain blood-letting.

I have several Martini-Henry's...Afghan copies - one is original.

On the pictured crate, (a modern reproduction), the "3" definitely indicates the length of the shell. The dram equivalent "3" is only used in low brass shells, never in Super-X 12 gauge shells. The dram equivalent was also not used alone, but only in the terminology of a complete loading like 3-1 1/8- 7 1/2.

Well, all of the above from AI is wrong. The Super-X progressive burning smokeless powder, high velocity loads were introduced by the Olin's Western Cartridge Co. in their FIELD shell in 1922. The other companies quickly followed. Remington with their Heavy Duck Load which quickly morphed into the Nitro Express. Peters with their High Velocity. Winchester with various "Speed Loads" in both their REPEATER and LEADER shells.

Non-corrosive priming was introduced into rifle ammunition during the 1920s, but didn't get applied to shotgun shells until 1931/2, Western Non-Corrosive, Remington Kleanbore, Peters Rustless and Winchester Staynless. In December 1931 the Olin's bought the defunct Winchester Repeating Arms Co. out of receivership. Over the next few years Winchester's shotgun ammunition came to mirror Western's. Western Super-X = Winchester Super-Speed. Western's Xpert = Winchester's Ranger.

Thanks R. I sort of figured this. The problem with AI is that it is a 3rd grade student and has to be taught. It will search until it gets a solution - possibly the first one it runs across. And it's not like gun writers and posters also do not copy and past others' erroneous posts; even well known magazines will publish and republish bad info often in a light-brush manner. If you query AI more deeply, it will search more completely. In addition it needs to be taught (but it will learn). Perhaps your post will now be factored into Google AI on these topics..

I simply searched on google and AI came up first. Had I been on CHATGPT or some verbal AI machine, I'd have started arguing with it. You can even insult it. it would have gone deeper. Or I could have specifically searched for key words and done the in-depth research and decided on what was likely the truth or the Lite-motif magazine truth. But on this topic, I just did the easy thing and copied what Google AI printed. (And, I'll have to admit, I knew this knowledgable group would challenge it).

Richard Hale has it right, as do other posters. It is a modern reproduction with no collector value beyond $25.00. It is a neat $25.00 find, but not an antique of interest to shell collectors.

Unless it was falling apart $23 was quite a deal. Put away cigars and hot drinks, handcrafted pine winchester ammo box costs $124 at Walmart.

I thought it was a repro and it turned out to be as much. It was given to me many years ago but has a great patina, really nice wood burnings and is frankly a neat box. No matter. No ammo has been harmed by gracing its interior and now it is in my wife's office, never to see the natural sunlight again:


The lances are 1990 10'8" regulation lances from the Indian Presidential bodyguard (which you cannot get and are theoretically not allowed to have - story censored):


When I was in India, the Presidential Bodyguard was dated to 1796. Then at a Marine Corps Ball, the commander, my guest and a former subordinate of my landlord MajGen D.K. Palit (see first page Reilly line), found out the US Marine Corps dated to 1775. . .suddenly the Indian Presidential bodyguard date of formation got backdated to 1773: I think I'm perhaps the only American ever to play the 9 holes of golf on the Presidential Palace estate in New Delhi.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/NNhINUtITtA