doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Food for thought . . . .

As a general rule, if you increase the weight of your shotgun 10 percent, you will get a 10 percent reduction in felt recoil.

However, if you reduce the weight and velocity of your shot payload by 10 percent, you will have a 20 percent reduction in felt recoil.

Stanton,

That is correct, relevant and timely as we approach dove season.

As we discussed previously, there are other advantages to moderate velocity of shot shells. Very few if any downsides.

Did we set a a record for having two gun and ammunition related post in a row on this site? 😁

I may be presumptive here (having only used it briefly) but I did not find my 5lb1 2-inch gun to be a bad recoiler at all.

Insignificant would be the word I would use to describe it, and at 15/16th of an ounce of shot (instead of the 7/8th of an ounce it was proved for) I would have expected a more noticeable effect...

Maybe I am just an insensitive old white guy after all?

I do switch over to 1 1/4 oz of 5s and 6s for later season pheasants hunting with a 12 gauge. Especially if it is cold.

Best,
Ted

Guns that fit well have less perceived recoil...guns that don't beat us up.

Ted,

1 1/4 oz of shot is needed at times in my opinion. 1400 FPS is never needed and often detrimental to both effectiveness and shooter comfort.

I wouldn't be surprised if it were ever determined that America's fascination with ultra-high velocity shot shells began when it was decided that it was needed to make steel lethal.

The thinking could have been, if 1400 fps is better for steel, it should make lead more of a long distance killer, too. Lots of fallacies in that line of thought, however.

I well remember when that occurred.

To the best of my knowledge, I’ve never chambered a round that went above about 1200fps. There are some old 3” magnum 12 and 20 gauge rounds about the place, probably have been here for 30 years, and they still float around 1150fps, they just feature a heavier load.

They still didn’t get used up.

Best,
Ted

“Little powder,
Much lead,
Shoots far,
Kills dead”

Some of the European 1 1/4 pigeon loads are 1400+ and iirc federal loaded some listed higher than that. Don’t think it lasted long. Never fired one.

Especially if it is cold.

Best,
Ted[/quote]

“If Minnasota is cold in the winter”? 😂

We haven’t had any record breaking stuff lately, but, when it is below zero, ammunition performance drops off. You can literally hear the difference.

Of course, I’m not as driven as I once was to hunt in the cold, but, I do some every year.

Within the current dog’s lifetime, we did see -47 for a few days. No wind, you don’t get wind at that temp, no hunting, either, but, we got our walk in. Yes, that is ice on our faces.





Best,
Ted

Shooting clays is different than hunting. One of my favorite guns is a 20 ga sxs that weighs about 6lbs 4 oz. I have shot 7/8 and even some 1 oz hunting loads after pheasant and not noticed recoil, but if I shoot it at clays I use 3/4 oz because I have found that if I use 7/8 loads after about 75 I am noticing the recoil and getting tired. Part of this is being old.

Since I been shooting sxs for game about 50yr I don't think I've ever put more than an ounce of shot through a 12/16/20 ga. My go-to for waterfowl is an ounce of bismuth 5s and 7/8 oz of ITX 6s. Pheasants and.grouse.1oz B&P High Pheasant 6s or my waterfowl loads on lead restricted areas. Dove and quail get my 7/8oz claybird load of 8s that I use for SC, trap and skeet. When I was shooting for hunt test was my heaviest load as the club supplied RM or Win trap 7.5s.

Never feel under gunned and never left very many cripples in the field. I hunt mainly Wa, MT SD WI and MN while I was hunting a lot, now it is different ves, quail and waterfowl in NM and AZ

Stan, recoil is not a factor with my 1/2 ounce shot load, in my .410. I could even go up to those super magnum 11/16 - 3/4 ounce loads you favor for later dove. Too many seem to think extra shot, or extra velocity will cover up lack of skill or just bad shots. Judge ranges better, practice shooting realistic targets instead of unrealistic easy birds, wait until birds are as near to the shooter as possible before moving your gun and shooter outcomes will drastically improve. It is the Indian not the bow or arrow.

I kill 100 plus dove every year with a 1/2 shot, that chronographs at 1260 fps. I have loads which top 1300+ fps, but they do not pattern as well as my preferred load of 1260 fps. You don't need more shot, or higher velocity to kill birds. I shoot a model 42, full choke .410, with 2 1/2" shells. I always make sure I know the real ranges, when ever possible when hunting. Dove are for the most part shot from a static position. I walk off my personal known limit of ability at 33 yards, from the shooting position, or use a bow hunters range finder if you have one. Limit shots to only birds within that area and your success rate will go up with whatever loads you use. Hope your season is full of great days in the field with friends and family.

I remember in the 80's there was a lot of work put into international trap loads by Ballistic Research. I loaded a lot of their loads with, I believe, their International Target Driver wads. I shot for a couple of years with 7/8 oz loads at around 1400 fps. My guns all patterned them extremel well. Recoil was very mild even compared to a regular AA target load, much less the handicap loads. A lot of people poo-pooed them until they shot them. The most dramatic effect was the way they shot at increased distances. I have seen the smae thing in 28 ga guns. Until they were unavailable my go to shell was Polywad Gram Crackr. It was a 5/8 oz load of nickel plated 5's loaded with a buffer at a pretty healthy velocity. Recoil was mild and there appeared to be no shot deformation at all. I use a 30" 28 gauge double with cylinder and skeet for quail and doves. With these loads I can make consistent clean hits and kills at 40 - 45 yds. With quail I use a spreader in the first barrel on a covey rise and a Gram Crakr in the second barrel to allow the birds to settle on a flight path before the second shot. Doubles are pretty to accomplish with this combo.

I think the general rule I have is to use as light a lead charge as possible that achieves an effective pattern at the target distance and then drive them to a maximum velocity that doesn't disrupt the pattern. Those two rules may not seem compatible, but if you start with the minimum charge that patterns effectively at the target distance, the combination of this and the acceptable max velocity you will end up with a comfortable load to shoot that operates at low pressure level but kills with authority. The caveat is that the load development depends on powder, wad, shot(size, charge, type) and choke. This requires quite a lot of development. However, when you find one that does all you want it is pretty magical thing to shoot.

What would happen if the loads were built the same quality components but lower velocity?
This is not rhetorical, I would like to know if you tried that?