doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion German & Austrian Sporting Guns @ doublegunshop.com Joh. Springer's Erben - 1910 - 16 X 11.5mm(450 Cal

And Gutsbesitzer Ungewitter also had some April Fool's Joke in 1908 entitled »Confetti¡«.



Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

Unequivocally I will share sources, but I think you have many of the same. It is just that said sources are being dissected character by character & then a summary is being formulated all via Künstliche Intelligenz(KI). All the info is harvested from period sources with no external bias.

It is like having a new Cotton Picker machine, cleaning every boll.


Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

Maybe I should start another thread for ole Gutsbesitzer Ungewitter, maybe not.


But I hope to obtain an inset in 6X70R soon, so this thread may have several veins.

Ford, how adept are you installing a full length insert for 6X70R????


Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

If only 7,35 Carcano had some sources.......


Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

Getting back to the original chambering of 450, I have it on good authority that the original kalibre of 450 was very common. In fact, Emperor Franz Joseph had no less that 7 rifles in 450 Bore. But his successor Franz Ferdinand favoured the kalibre of 6,5.

Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

Raimey,
I never installed a full length einstecklauf but if you get one that is adjustable from the muzzle, it shouldn't too hard. I would try to not mess it up so badly that you couldn't sell it for scrap iron. Be sure to get plenty ammo at the same time.
Mike

Archduke Franz Ferdinand found favour w/ the 6,5X52R & 6,5X57R, both which had tolerable recoil and better fit his Hight Volume Harvest Hunting Style.

The 450 BPE was tried & true. It really fit the bill for the European Forests in Central Europe. Rothirsch and Keiler were favourite targets. Although you probably needed a Porter, the 450 BPE was pressed into service chasing Gams(Chamois) in Alpine Hunting. But Nobility, like the Polish Szlachta, preferred the 450 BPE for Treibjagden(Driven Hunts).

So Springer's Erben, much like Kettner I guess, supplied the Nobility w/ Sporting Platforms, sourced from Weipert, Ferlach, Suhl, that spread across the Austro-Hungarian Empire. In the 2nd Polish Republic, where finally after the 1st Major Disagreement in Europe along with several skirmishes w/ adjoiners in establishing the Kresy Wschodnie, or Eastern Boundary, circa 1921, the wares of Springer's Erben filtered thru the likes of Polish Firearms Merchants like Eustachy Dmytrach, who was an apprentice and employee of Alfred Dzikowski's Gunshop for a time. It was outlets like these where the elite could acquire Sporting Weapons with shot tubes with tight chokes, have access to Large Estates, where it was almost to the point of »Fix Bayonets« in dispatching Hares on Former Feudal Estates.


Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

Too, the Olomouc Region has its own story too where gunsmiths like Gustav Tichý sidelock of Moravska Ostrava & Jaroslav Teichman Olomouc Czech Republic each worked as an apprentice to František Faukner, who was a stickler for detail. And don't forget Jan Novotny of Praze with the House of 1000 Guns. Although there were some Springer's Erben sales thru these Gunsmiths, most of the platforms originated at Liège. But these mechanics had elite clientele also.


Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

You are very right, Raimey. These cities and towns that you name here, Olmütz and Mährisch Ostrau, were also an integral part of what was once called Central Europe, and what after 1918 and especially after 1945 has been too easily forgotten, in lieu of an artificial West <-> East division in Europe.

Both were "German cities" in the sense that the (significant) majority of their population since the Middle Ages spoke German, and that the city was constituted according to German township and city laws (Deutsche Stadtrechte, Magdeburg being the most influentia). Yet that fact must not be misconstrued in a more modern, 19th century sense of ethnically based nationalism.

Both belonged, until 1918, to the Habsburgian Margraviate of Moravia, which on its turn was merely one part of the "Lands of the Bohemian Crown", hereditary in the House of Habsburg.
So, they were subjects of the Emperor, inhabitants of Cisleithania, linguistically and maybe culturally Germans.

Jani might chime in here, from his "Windische" (as it was then called) perspective on Ferlach. Some parallels are obvious. ;-)

Herzliche Grŭße,
Carcano

I now think I might know one reason why their Spezial-Scheibenpulver is not found so much in historical records and ammunition catalogues. After 1914 - the cartridge had hardly been introduced -, Haslach was under the aegis of the Military Economy (Kriegswirtschaft), and produced mainly propellants for war efforts. The factory was subordinate to the Bavarian Feldzeugmeisterei (Ordnance Department) until 1919.
https://www.deutsche-digitale-bibliothek.de/item/TE3WKUNUBTY2GLV6FXZZDNVEK3HW532M

Hardly had the Great War and the Kingdom of Bavaria ended in late 1918, and the interstice of the short-lived ultra-leftwing Bavarian Räterepublik been debellated in 1919 by the Freikorps,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bavarian_Soviet_Republic
(the citizens' militia, Einwohnerwehr Bayern, yielded their sole machinegun to the "defence" of the powder plant against the reds),
then the Great Inflation struck everybody hard until 1923.

And after the currency consolidation in 1924 and slow recuperation, two large explosions in 1926 and again in 1928 wrecked the factory and led to its final closure.

Carcano