doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion German & Austrian Sporting Guns @ doublegunshop.com Joh. Springer's Erben - 1910 - 16 X 11.5mm(450 Cal

Loading a Berdan Primed RWS stick of brass w/ 25 grains of VV N 140 resulted in a muzzle velocity of 2150 ft/s.


Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

Note the following is for the 6,5X48R......


117 grain bullet / 23 grains Viht N-140 = 2450 bar (35530 psi) and 2234 fps

117 grain bullet / 22 grains Viht N-140 = 2130 bar ( 31470 psi) and 2144 fps

110 grain bullet / 23 grains Viht N-140 = 2270 bar ( 32914 psi) and 2250 fps
Quick Load Data Calcs or similar


»The Ql calculations impute using .264" bullets from .264" pressure test dimension barrels and .257" bullets from .257" barrels. That is not the problem here. We are talking about shooting .257" or .261" bullets from the same barrel. That barrel has a groove diameter of .257" (Leatherman's first post, I tend to believe that) to .260" ( maximum calculated from the proof marks). Shooting fitting or even slghtly undersized .257 bullets from that barrel will not rise pressures, but lower them, compared to the original .261" bullets. So I would try .257" 117 gr rn bullet first, loaded with about 22 gr VV N140.«



https://www.germanguns.com/vb5/foru...l-discussion/1399-6-3x48r-cape-gun/page2


Note the above is for the 6,5X48R


Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

What a wonderful gun. I particularly like the treatment of the bolsters and top lever.

There is a Springer double rifle in 9.3x57R/360 2.25" on GunsInternational now with a similarly marked Springer case. I would have been more interested in that one if the seller could have shared any meaningful shooting data.

Congratulations! And how nice to also have the scope. I have a little Springer single that's missing its scope. Top rib looks almost silly with the bases for those snap mounts and no scope.

Chris

Yeah, the J. Springer Erben's Weipert 450 X 16 was an exception piece @ one time. It has some light exterior pitting and like you, I wish more info would have been provided. I asked for the proof marks & all I got was the Final 1910 Datastring. I don't think knowing that it was relined to 6,6X70R would have had any bearing on my purchase, but for some reason it appears to be devoid of any rework marks.



Here is a Springer Hammer DR with Belgian pattern welded tubes, which is somewhat rare. Well, rate in the fact that they left the Belgian marks on the tubes. It seems that if Springer made one in-house, they sourced Liége for components, especially tubes. But if they sourced the mechanics in Vejprty / Weipert, then tubeset was sourced from Suhl.

Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

Annealed a few cases via a candle but there are still hairline cracks in the sticks of brass from which I am pulling the bullets & powder. Maybe they didn't notice the little buggers. But regardless, each unprepped stick of brass much be annealed down to 0.4" from the base. That's where about all of the cracked cases endI(or start). I have not seen any cracks from midway of the case to the mouth. On the cases I am pulling the bullets, the hairline cracks are between 0.4" above to about 0.7" from the base. Even the sticks of brass that followed the Springer from Kodiak to Alabama had cracks that ended between 0.5" to 0.7". Why they are cracking so low, I can't say unless that 1st burst of pressure is exactly where the case isn't fully malleable & must be properly annealed.

Loaded a couple boxer primed cases that turned out to have hairline cracks w/ 26 grains of VV N 140 & the average velocity was a little over 2100 ft/s.

I am going over the re-loaded rounds with my fingers and a loupe in an effort to search for a few cases that do not have cracks. And I am annealing them w/ a hand-torch(not flashlight). None of the Berdan primed RWS sticks of brass had or have cracks.

Accuracy w/ the Gerrad Glass is just lovely @ 30 metres of hand.

Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

I will admit I know very little about mechanical annealers, but would a mechanical annealer reach down & pick up that area from 0.4" from the base up to about 1" from the base or does it just torch the case mouth & neck, stopping @ the neck?

On these Bertram Boxer pocket 6,5X70R sticks of brass, if you don't anneal to within 0.4" of the base, there's $5 up in smoke every time you pull the trigger. And I just don't want to start down that path. Luckily I have several cracked cases from which to learn.

For now, I don't see any way to properly anneal the case from the mouth to within 0.4" of the base without doing it by Hand?


Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

Too, I forgot to note that the holes in the cartridge trap in the metal butt plat are 450 cartridge diameter. So the platform was built pretty stout for the 450??


Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

Also for ease of loadingseating the bullets, I take a 8,15X46 1/2R decapping die & just ever so slightly expand/relax the case mouth. This makes it so easy to load the long bullets.



Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

Raimey.
The 6.5x70 R cases take a lot of swaging and drawing out to get them as small as they are. This work hardens the brass in the body of the case pretty severely. The cases were annealed to below the neck, but seemingly not low enough (manufactures are leery of softening the heads) to prevent the splits you experienced. You will not be able to hold the cases in your bare fingers long enough to reach your target area of annealing. A possible, although slower, method of annealing the area you are interested in, is to put them into a pan of water deep enough to protect the heads and tipping them over with a rod after heating. Once you get the procedures worked out, you can speed it up by working in batches and having one of your boy's turn them over while you heat the others. It will benefit them to learn how and why we anneal, anyway. Good luck.
Mike

Good idea Ford. About how long should I apply heat? More than 15 seconds?

I haven't made any new to me brass. I have been using sticks of brass where others have been unsuccessful.


Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse