doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Adjusting Point of Impact for vintage guns

I've been following this Thread without comment. The article in Dr. Wankers' link by Michael Yardley has good advice. I also have Yardley's book. "Gunfitting", and one thing stands out.

I can't recall anywhere Yardley suggests shooting a bird or clay target gun off sandbags. To get a good representation of point of impact from a pattern board, it seems apparent that shots at the pattern board should be taken using the same mounting and shooting style one would normally use on birds or clay targets. Save the sandbag rest for the slug gun and rifles.

Keith, you still keep makin common cents here...

hopefully, some of it will rub off on some of our self focused colleagues...

Go to YouTube and find some reels of olympic trap competitions. Watch Giovanni Pellielo shooting. His career validates the style. Fairly typical of the Italian school.

Galliano Rossini Gold Skeet 1956, Silver Trap 1960, 4th 1964 Olympics. Low mount and lots of lean



WAY low mount and lean; Bina Avrile Guiducci., Italy, Ladies World Champion 1969



Giovanni Pellielo Silver 2004, 2008, 2016 Trap



Compare the forward hand position of Rossini and Pellielo

Then again, Glenn Eller
2016 Rio Olympic Games, Men's Double Trap
2012 London Olympic Games, Men's Double Trap
2008 Beijing Olympic Games, Gold, Men's Double Trap
2004 Athens Olympic Games, Men's Double Trap
2000 Sydney Olympic Games, Men's Double Trap



Richard Faulds at Beijing 2008. He won Gold at Sydney 2000 Double Trap and lots of Sporting Clays titles. Note finger point

Not that I am any expert or anything, but I agree- you should stick with one gun until you start shooting perfect or near perfect scores for a while. Then go to another gun. You kinda have to choose one or the other. Serious or funsies. But what the heck...if you shoot 21s and 22s that's not bad. I don't own one British gun. You have several. That's pretty cool. But good luck with what you decide. 👍

I started shooting trap and kept trading up until I got a Ljutic mid rib. The stock and adjustable butt plate were set up for the last guy that owned it. And they were all out of whack for me. I couldn't hit squat with it. The guy I got it from was with me when I first shot it and he told me I had too bring the gun right up to the target. I started breaking targets left and right. I could tell the gun shot about 40/60 and I loved it. Big difference from the 686 I started out with. Soon I was breaking 25s and 49s or 50 straights in the league........... Now just for fun, I shoot an 870 or a new BT-99 I bought a few years back and things went south. I shoot for the fun of it. But I'll never forget the one ol' guy who would tease me when I was shooting that Ljutic- every time he'd see me he would shake his finger at me and say, "Now aren't you glad you did what I told you to do and stayed AWAY FROM THAT PATTERNING BOARD!! I'll never forget him. He's still around somewhere. 😆

doc drew,

by now, galliano most likely suffers from sciatic nerve pain, resulting from his shooting style...

poor bina, utilized her advanced scoliosis to create her somewhat unique contorted shooting style...

I’m not an expert on shooting styles or an Olympic coach but I’ve seen many Championships won and lost.

Looking at the photos above the really odd styles all seem to be dated. In the 1960-1980 era freak positions were very common.
Very few if any of the really odd ones lasted long. It always appeared to me that those odd ones who won did so in spite of outlandish form rather than because of it.

The really pitiful ones were the lesser shooters who emulated the form with notable lack of success. Frankly, they just looked foolish. I recall one international skeet shooter whose position was so low his bottom was nearly on the ground. His form was derisively called the DOG SQUAT.

Long to short is that science and history favor a simple, easily repeatable approach that does not unduly fatigue muscles or place the shooter off balance. Eyes level, slight forward lean, feet well positioned with respect to target.

Consistent success comes from avoiding extreme, non repeatable positions.

So true, Richard. Even little things, with regards to stance, can have big effects on shooting success.

I was once taking a shooting lesson from Bill McGuire, who is an international champion in sporting clays. He told me to break a right to left crosser at about 30 yards. Not a difficult target by any means, and one that I would normally have no problem with.

I missed it four times straight and turned to look at Bill in disbelief. "I don't know what is going on.", I said. He calmly said "I want you to relax." "I am relaxed.", I replied. "No, you're not. You've got your feet spread apart like you're bracing for a collision with something. I want you to place your feet a little less than shoulder width apart, just like you would if you were standing and talking to a friend."

I did as he instructed and crushed the next four straight. He grinned and I just shook my head, amazed.

That one little tip helped my consistency in sporting so very much over the ensuing years.

Kyphosis ed. Stick to what you know.

Richard's reference is to Matt Dryke, and those who tried to copy his style, which as said didn't last very long. He did however win an Olympic Gold medal in 1984, and was two-time world champion in 1983 and 1986.



THIS is just weird. Henry Adler at the Dallas Gun Club in 1947



I posted Fauld's image as he typifies Richard's & Stan's point about a relaxed & comfortable stance.
George Digweed is a BIG guy but also relaxed. Note his forward hand



OTOH (find what works for you) Dagen Voigtman is one of the top American ATA shooters today; little forward lean and erect head position