doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com 1895 Reilly double-rifle. Patent? Proof Marks?

Southams has graciously added pictures of the Reilly stock/action/forend SN 26885. Several are posted below. I do not know what a Greener Facile Princeps action looks like. However, this does not look like a box lock. And, If this were an A&D box lock it would have the A&D Patent use mark,

This has a patent use mark G(?)&N patent 2003(?) use# 635. This use number is quite low. Would appreciate some advice on the action and on what the patent stamp is referring to. It may merit an addition to the history. This is a very handsome action, fully engraved and was obviously a Reilly high-end gun. Thanks.
https://www.southamsauction.co.uk/a...alse&sd=0&pp=48&pn=1&g=1

Looks like an FP action to me, you can see the tips of the hammers through the front lug recess in the watertable, the gun cocks via an extension on the lump of the barrels like an FP does. The top-lever sure is odd though.

Buckstix's gun. Greener Royal G grade with patent 2003. Is this patent a follow-on to the Greener 1880 patent 930 for the facile princeps? Is it a separate patent? For what? Is the small elephant a Greener trademark? (Birmingham proofs on the Greener - London proofs on the Reilly).



Edit; Mystery solved: Greener's ejector patent No. 2003 of 1881. However, is the Reilly using Greener patent 930 as well? No stamps. Wonder if Greener might have any records of actions licensed to be produced by others or actions sold to other gun-makers?
https://doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=238361

G.& N. stands for Greener and Needham’s patent (see my Cameleopard thread) and if I remember correctly relates to the ejectors which were a Needham design.

The gun at Southams is certainly a Facile Princeps, note the tips of the cocking bars at the back of the forward lump slot, and the stud for the “jumping Jack” top lever hold open.

Note also the Westley Richards style dolls head top extension and sliding bolt (as on the gun I owned Reilly no. 30227).

The elephant on Buckstick’s gun is indeed a Greener trade mark.

Thanks Para and SKB. Those were very educational posts. I've sent the conclusions to Southam's and have included the Reilly date chart. This text has been added to the History chapter 71:

XI: Reilly – 1880’s:
. . .71. 1882: Selling Off The Rack

In addition to the A&D boxlocks mentioned above Reilly may well have sourced two other actions from Birmingham:

, , ,-- Scott 1878 patent 761 “Triplex” action often used with Perkes crystal cocking indicators; This action was pictured on the January 1882 Reilly advertisement introducing guns sold off the rack. Extant serial numbered Reilly’s using the Triplex Action, all of which have Scott patent use numbers, include SN’s 24736, 25038, 25039, 26733, 27385, 27446, 27644, 27853, 27854, 27853.



. . .-- Greener 1880 patent 930 Facile Princeps action often coupled with the G&N 1881 patent 2003 - ejectors. There are three extant examples, all highly engraved and finished; They are all proofed in London vice Birmingham for the Greener FP's and none of the Reilly's have the Greener elephant trademark stamp: SN 25883, 30227, and one whose SN has not been published.

Not realising that Gene would succeed in inveigling Southams into posting photos of the markings on the action, I splashed out a £2 minimum bid on this stock and action,to see what it might reveal.

I have just increased my collection of early boxlocks by 1/2 a gun.

For those worried about my sanity I am NOT planning to commission a new set of FP barrels.

Wow!! Just amazing. That seems a very attractive action and engraving. A new set of barrels should be easy to get. . .he he.:). (Turkey maybe).

I would like to ask Greener some questions. Does Greener still respond? Does anyone have an email address? The Greener website lists none. Thanks.

This letter was sent to Greener, info Graham Greener. We'll see if a response is forthcoming;

Sirs; I have written a long history of Reilly of London which has changed the perception of the company quite a bit and the dating chart of which is now used by most auction houses. it was published in attenuated edited form in 2019 in Diggory Hadoke's on-line magazine but with 10 years of research is now 260 pages long. The text can be read here on p,94 of this line:
https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=436538&page=94

In January 1882 Reilly first advertised selling guns "off the rack." Up to that time from 1828 on if he serial numbered a gun, it was built in one of his two large London workshops. However, congruently in 1882 his yearly serial number production jumped from around 650 a year where it has been for 10 years to over 1,000 - this without an increase in floor space. This indicates that like the rest of the London trade he began to import A&D boxlock actions from Birmingham to be finished in London. He began to advertise the boxlock at the same time.

In researching the 1880's, I have discovered three serial numbered Reilly's with Facile Princeps actions, one from 1885, one from 1890 and one whose serial number was not published. These actions have the G&N patent 2003 with a use number but no Greener patent 930 use number. They are proofed in London and do not have the Greener elephant on them.

I've speculated that he bought the actions from Greener. However, Reilly was also known to make copies of others' patents under license. I'm attaching photographs of the 1885 action. By any chance do you have any records of sale of FP actions in the white to other gunmakers in the 1880's time period? Did Greener license their patents to be made by others?

Many thanks. The history of UK gun-making is a never-ending Sherlock Holmes tale and anything you might add would be historical. (I have long since queried Purdey about Reilly's use of their patent 1104 but their records are "locked up" according to Nick Hardy.)

Gene Williams
McLean, Virginia

https://www.southamsauction.co.uk/a...alse&sd=0&pp=48&pn=1&g=1