doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Belgian Load Data for Powder M or Mullerite - 1897

I was surfing thru my stash of fotos & I noticed this Belgian double w/ Load Data for Mullerite, I believe?? In the mid 1890s, powder technology was all but outpacing steel technology & the Belgians made an attempt to address all the new fangled powders by incorporating said powders in their Proof Law. 1897 & 1898 saw a host of new fangled powders added to the list & in 1898 E.C. 3, Powder M, PowderR, L.3.S., Coopal Rose, Mullerite & Clermonite were added. Now I am not sure if Rampant Lion over M was Powder M or Mullerite? At any rate, I don't think I have seen the stamp that often?

But during this period of powder incorporation into the Belgian Proof Law, pressures for early new fangled smokeless powders ranged from 6k PSI to 10k PSI. So in 1897 a rule was adopted that Proof Charges had to reach 80% excess pressure than Service Loads, I assume. And that ALL proof charges must develop a pressure of @ least 8.8k PSI. But even though the barrel was subject to a pressure test for a specific powder did not mean that the end user would actually use that powder. The Service Load applied on the tube could also be stamped in English or German.



Serbus,

Raimey
rse

Good timing brother. We just discussed proof with Mullerite, and your example, here
https://www.shotgunworld.com/thread...sxs.591046/?post_id=5344288#post-5344288
12g Manufacture Liegeoise proved with Mullerite for a maximum service load of 2.70 grams = 41.67 grains = 3 Dr. Eq. (42 grains) with 36 grams shot = 1 1/4 oz. shot.

Mullerite was marketed by Louis Muller & Cie S.A. des Explosifs de Clermont, Liege in 1899. No. 1 was a Bulk Smokeless; No. 2 a faster burning “33 grain” Bulk powder.
Poudreries Réunies de Belgique acquired Muller & Cie in 1919.

Schoverling & Welles, 2 Murray St., N.Y. were agents for Muller & Cie in 1904
A.A. Schoverling was manager of the Mullerite Gun Club in Newark, N.J. in 1905

Great Info there Hause & see how Daly & Friends permeate the American Sportsman circles.


Serbus,

Raimey
rse

Any idea what Powder »M« might have been?


Serbus,

Raimey
rse

Man, that is some lengthily chambers for a Belgian smoke pole.......



Serbus,

Raimey
rse

The gun here has the stylized lion over 'MULLER'
https://www.shotgunworld.com/thread...sxs.591046/?post_id=5344288#post-5344288

I think (but don't know) that the 'M' is more likely Mullerite than French Poudre M.
I have seen a lion over 'S' (not SCH for "Schultze"); possibly Poudre S. I've never seen a lion over 'T'.

https://www.doublegunshop.com/forum...Words=galand+&Search=true#Post661826

Well, I can definitely put an end to that low »T« or no »T« run of yours w/ this unique Galand, of which I am the current custodian.


Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

In 1897 the Belgian Proof Law notes Mullerite but in the 1898 Proof Law Mullerite & Powder M are distinguished separately as well as independently.



Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

Thanks brother.

From the Verney-Carron 1914 catalog

https://en.calameo.com/read/0054478584946e91a2418



Poudre T Pyroxylée Sans Fumé (introduced in 1899) was a 11.5 grains/dram = 34.5 grains = 3 Dr. Eq. powder and was used by the French Proof Houses starting in 1900, and was the only powder used for Nitro proof post-1914.
Standard 12g load for Poudre T was 2.2 grams = 34 grains = 3 Dr. Eq. with 1 1/8 oz. = 7,170 psi + 10 - 14%. Maximum load was 2.6 grams = 40 grains = 3.48 Dr. Eq. with 1 1/4 oz shot at 620 Kg/mm2 = 8,818 psi + 10 - 14%.

It seems likely that Belgian guns proved with French powders were done so at the request of the French dealer.

Hause:


Quite an astute & interesting observation; that goes a long way in explaining just why so many powder choices were in the Belgian Proof Law. And of course the French Firearms Merchants would well know what powder their clients were apt to ignite in their smokepoles.

Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse