doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Economics and hunting?

On vacation with my wife's family here in North Carolina all this week (sure wish my old buddy from Cabelas [Tom Bryant] was still around to go visit).

Like most extended families, there is a spectrum of cultures (& political orientations) involved in this little microcosm and I have observed some interesting behaviors and attitudes that have allowed me to form something of a "pet" theory....

Maybe I'm just slow but I'm finally realizing that in order to have an attachment to outdoor predatory behavior (i.e., hunting & fishing) one must first have had an encounter (usually in early life) with some form of an economic hardship.

If a child is raised in endless economic security (no contact with any form of a hardscrabble existence) the odds of him or her ever experiencing hunting culture is slim to none. Privilege and comfort will quickly eliminate any interest in such things it seems.

Obviously it is much more complicated than the "city mouse" versus the "country mouse" argument but... that largely covers it.

Am I all wet here?

I grew up with perhaps a dozen kids in my neighborhood. Nobody was rich, but, that said, none of us ever missed a meal. Typically, Dad worked and Mom was home. Nothing was hardscrabble about our existence.

Some of my buddies preferred fishing, some deer hunting, myself and a few others were bird hunters. Small game like rabbits and squirrels were in that mix too, but, usually not sought specifically. The predictions that I can see from my own era, were having a Dad that hunted, even just a bit, being a male child, and having access to some local spots. As kids, we were chased out of a few spots, but, public hunting was usually available.

My Dad was orphaned in 1929, and lived as a foster child for 17-years-he represented a monthly check in the depression years. I’m not sure hardscrabble comes close enough to how things were for him. A regular part of his weekly chores was hunting for small game, or, fishing, usually for panfish, to help with family meals. If he didn’t do it a few times a week, he caught hell.

Dad loved being outside, Lloyd. He liked bringing something home, but, always said a bad day hunting was better than a good day working. That little group of friends that spent mornings before and afternoons after school hitting a few local hunting spots is just a memory. I’m the only one left who keeps a Setter, and hunts birds in the fall. Everyone else is gone, aged out, or just moved on. I really don’t want to be that guy who goes to the gun club on weekend afternoons to play 500 or cribbage with the other old and deaf guys.

If I see a few birds, I’m happy.

Best,
Ted

I'm presently looking at the current crop of youngsters Ted (our world was quite different, eh?) teens thru their early 30s. Some are from fairly humble beginnings and some are from what could only be called exceptional privilege.

Growing-up in a hunting household can make a significant difference but...it is no guarantee of being interested.

Conservative values seem to be a component as well.

Lloyd,
I think you’re onto something. I’ve seen that pattern myself. Another strong pattern I’ve seen is how a sense of community perpetuates hunting. Nuclear families and extended families that hunt and fish tend to perpetuate children that hunt and fish. Sometimes that sense of community goes even beyond family and to a hunting or fishing club or even larger — for example many of us have seen small towns that take pride in the hunting/fishing traditions in their community.

I’ve always thought sense of community was a foremost factor, but I can see the economic angle too. I don’t think these factors are mutually exclusive.

Even guys born with a silver spoon can be taken in by the Dogs, guns, game and scenery. 2 of those things can be enough to form a life long interest, all 4 will do you in for sure. Thank God!

My kid and his friends have distractions that I could only have dreamed of. But, his team sports in high school were mountain biking, and trap shooting. He lives a lot closer to a gun than many of my peers in school did, back in the day. He’ll hunt with me, depending on what his options are. I fell off the bus for a few years when I discovered girls, and ended up with my first crummy car. My Dad figured I’d be back, and he was right. He also knew my brother wasn’t ever going to be a bird hunter, but, brother surprised him by being a consistent deer hunter. While he was able, anyway, which, was all of my Dads later life.

I don’t know any kids that lead a hardscrabble existence today. The land that was the other side of the tracks in my youth, became valuable and has new houses built on it. They ain’t cheap, either.

Best,
Ted

Not for the sake of arguement, but for the sake of the specifically stated discussion, I am not buying it. I thought I grew up poor; I did not. BUT, my family was tight, frugal, and did not have much excess. My father had 3 sons by age 22. He worked in a PIttsburgh steel mill and took EE night classes at PITT for 8 years. Mom kept three boys, safe, in school, sports, and out of trouble.

Dad hunted in the traditions of Pennsylvania, an annual trek up North to a very social family deer camp and kicking rabbits and pheasants out of the strip mines and industry sites around Carnegie. It all helped feed us, but was more of a luxury/method of pride in tradition and subsistance than a necessity. It likely didn't support near as much as the hours would have paid otherwise. After he graduated, we moved to the Blue Ridge Mtns of VA, and hunting became a far more solitary and exploratory endeavor. Deer were hunted in natural settings and not pushed or driven. Of the three boys, I have always been an avid and die hard hunter. I credit, Dad, Grandpap, and my Uncles for the love and passion of the hunt, as well as the Pennsylvania Games News magazines that I read cover to cover from the school library and Grandpap's house. One brother dabbled and has started trying with his kids now... the third, shot one deer and was done.

I now have two kids of my own. My wife and I are both college grads, my wife has additional levels of education. We married at 30 and had kids "late." My children HAVE NO IDEA what a $ struggle could be, I have never door- dashed anything in my life and my 14 yo daughter argued to the end of the world this week that $30 to door dash 2x Starbucks drinks ( as her friend did ) "was not a bad deal." That said my son is insanely passionate about hunting, that feeling I have firmly driven, but he is even more so into fishing, which I do not do. So where does the appreciation and the drive come from? I think it comes from experience and success or the hope for success. For me it was the dream I would one day get that buck, see that bear, be there and experience. For my son? Well, he's 12 and in the last two years he has harvested a 9pt, 8,pt and a 10pt. He has landed 6+ 5lb largemouth and more than one 20 in Smallmouth. He firmly believes he will have success and loves every minute of it. My daughter dabbles with it all, but may not for much longer...

It's different strokes for different folks, some take to it and some do not. There are many reasons that people choose to do what they do, but amoung my family and my closest hunting friends, I dont' see hardscrabble experiences driving specific hunting motivation or appreciation. The other note on this discussion... my family has proudly only used venison for red meat for decades, but regarding the "must live hardscrabble" to want to hunt... I have experienced the opposite. The people I have meet with the BIGGEST aversion to venision are those who reflect upon a time it was "all they had" or that eating venision itself was proof of poverty. I have heard/seen this feeling more in rural VA than I would have ever imagined ( I had a minor/ focus in Appalachain Studies.) I think it may be better presented that "those with the resolve to work hard are more likely to find appreciation in the predatory behaviors."

EDIT: ADD on -- the same 14yo daughter is pestering my wife this afternoon to cook the single 4 inch crayfish she brought home from the creek.

Interesting perspective, Lloyd. I think it was more likely true for our generation than it is today. I didn't grow up hardscrabble, but my father certainly did. We always had food to eat, but meat was limited. My mother only fried half a chicken for our family of 4 and we each got one piece.

The exception to that was fish and game, and then I usually got all I wanted. There were no deer or turkeys when I was born, but they finally both had huntable numbers when I was about 10 and it was great to get one. Not only my father hunted and fished, but both grandfathers and all 6 of my uncles. It was just something we were expected to do, just like working in the garden and the fields

My children had the opportunity to hunt and fish, but it was optional to them. I carried 2 of my granddaughters fishing this morning and we are going to eat the fish we caught for dinner. That will be an unusual experience for them.

I grew up with the understanding that the purpose of hunting and fishing was to put food on the table. It's been decades since it made economic sense to do either, but I still have the desire to go. But I can't shake the idea that the purpose is to provide food. I don't have much desire to pursue anything I can't eat. I will chase a turkey for miles, but hiking seems pointless.

I think the world is passing me by, but I feel blessed to have gotten to live my life in the era that I have.

hunting and fishing are favorite activities of all economic and social classes, most everywhere...

where some of my ancestors came from...

the poor were known as poachers...

others were known as protectors of the kings game...

My grandchildren are Wasian’s.
They are urbanites.
Culturally and circumstantially, their lives don’t involve much of the outdoors.
They might feed the koi, or bow to a Sika at an ancient temple, but other than my annual efforts to corrupt them, there just isn’t much outdoor time in a kids life living in LA.

But I have seen enough people pick up the outdoor life in their 30s and 40s, with no early experience, I believe that it is just some kind of a calling. I think it’s inside of everyone, but not everyone listens to it.

I’m headed to Finland next week to fish for sea trout.
No CLP on any of my Hardy’s.