doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Thoughts on price and value

This Churchill boxlock ejector sold at Holts today at a hammer price of £1,300 against an estimated £800 to £1,200.

Made in 1974 and sold new in 1975 at a price of £999, about £13,500 in today’s money.

If you can find someone to build you a new British BLE today I would be surprised if you got any change out of £20,000.

The boomers are aging out, so that is gutting the market.

Also, non-toxic in the UK isn’t going away.

When I am on a shoot, I seldom see a young person with a side-by-side. When I go to a more elegant affair with some older gents, lots of vintage guns shooting bismuth.

If you only shoot a few days a year in person should shoot what makes them happy, but if you shoot quite a bit more than that, there are just a lot more considerations.

By my calculations, for an American buyer, the 'in the door' cost for that gun would be about $2900.

Here is a similar gun for sale sans case at gunsinternational, from Vintage Doubles in Washington, listed at $3400. There would be the additional $75 shipping and $50 FFL, so about $3500.

That brady case looks like it is in great shape. I don't think Brady is in business for guns any more, but here is a used canvas covered Brady case for sale for $400 (plus $35 shipping) in the US.

So, for US buyers, it seems that a similar gun and case would be close to $4000 or more. And there were 10 Churchill double guns for sale at Holt's today. There are 3 for sale total on gunsinternational and gunbroker today. (the one above at $3400, a sidelock for $32,200, and 1937 boxlock with price on request).

My takeaway is that the buyer of that gun got a great deal. I think it is also evidence that vintage guns are an outstanding deal compared to a new American gun like the CSMC RBL which can be bought for $6600 plus tax, etc, Spanish guns like the AyA 4/53 which can be had for closer to $8000, or the beautiful, Italian-made-British-branded William Powell Sovereign sideplate that goes for $7464 presumably plus export/import costs.

The additional question of value buying from England seems clear to me as well-- there are more choices and better prices for high quality vintage and antique double guns abroad than we have here, and it is a great option even with the headache and expense of import.

I put in a bid on Lot 1483: * STEPHEN GRANT A 12-BORE 1879 PATENT ROUNDED-BAR TRIGGERPLATE-ACTION SIDELEVER NON-EJECTOR, serial no. 5183,

Holt's predicted 700-900 pounds, ended up going for 2100 pounds + all the additional expenses if bought here in the US.

I wonder how many of the guns are going to be shipped to the US

Be happy that you did not win that Grant, I had it looked at by a well respected London trained barrel and action man, lots of problems.

Thanks.

Very disappointing that Holt's description didn't seem to mention any of them

You can get a condition report from Holt's, it can help but they don't see the things that a good craftsman sees.

SKB, what were the problems your inspector saw?




For pictures and information on Baker Shotguns, click below.

This one had multiple barrel dents and was loose on the face.

I was interested in the side-lever sidelock Grant....until I found out about the condition.

I have a Churchill Regal 28 inch, great condition in original Bryant case, circa 1977. Private sale in UK, I would think it would be very well south, possibly half,of £1000. If it sold ! That's ss guns here now. Regards

Interesting discussion—this is a good example of how the vintage double gun market doesn’t always follow “common sense” pricing. That Churchill selling at £1,300, even below modern replacement cost, really shows how buyer demand and market timing matter more than original value.

A few things stand out to me: overseas auctions (like Holt’s) can still offer strong value, even after import costs, and condition/details matter a lot more than the name on the gun.

buyer beware...

this whole sale auction off of British made gons in the UK has been going on for a couple of years now...

thousands of them are being imported into our country, thus flooding an already depressed market for doublegons...

this huge and sudden increase in supply, has already driven down the price of English gons in the American market...

don't pay big bucks for one of these heavily used relics...

buy American instead...

and if you are looking for quality at a bargain price...buy early post war German or Japanese made gons...

London built sidelock, 1920s mfr. - Thomas W. Perkes - $990 to my door.

It's not perfect, but it is tight and very shootable

You can get a lot of gun for $1000 .... you can get a SH1TLOAD of gun for $2000... Whether that gun checks some particular, relatively irrelevant, box may or maynot be. There are many wonderful deals and options out there, and the fact is the birds don't care what you're carrying!

That's something that should have been caught and mentioned in the description

Auctions are a gamble, I like to say that the odds are far better than in Vegas, if you educate yourself. If you do not have access to someone in the trade that can do an inspection for you, at least get a condition report from the auctioneer. They want to sell the gun for as much as possible, underinformed bidders are beneficial to the auction companies bottom line.

I had two others on my list for my guy to look over, both were in worse condition than the Grant that you were interested in.