doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion Double Rifles, Paradox Guns & Gauge Rifles @ doublegunshop.com I CUT DOWN MY H&H ROYAL TO MAKE A HOWDAH RIFLE

I CUT DOWN MY H&H ROYAL TO MAKE A HOWDAH RIFLE

You may have seen this post about my recently acquired Holland & Holland Royal Double Rifle in 500-450 cal.

https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=671576#Post671576

... and a few years ago I posted about my Westley Richards Howdah Double Rifle.

https://forums.accuratereloadi...0101804/m/9901021552

Well, I liked the Westley Richards so much .. that I decided to cut-off the barrels of my newly acquired Holland & Holland Royal and turn it into a Howdah rifle.

What do you think? Is this cool or what? This must be a "one-of-a-kind" ..

As usual, your comments are welcome.


http://www.buckstix.com/buckpics/H&H-HOWDAH-000.jpg

How does the ATF feel about 14 in rifles?
I suspect the muzzle blast is indescribable?

Before cutting off the barrels I had to apply for a "short barrel" NFA license. With the new laws there is no longer a $200 tax stamp - its now free. But you still have to supply photos and finger prints, and NICS background check. It took about 5 weeks. I will bet I own the ONLY Holland & Holland Howdah Double Rifle.

http://www.buckstix.com/buckpics/BATF-BLUR.jpg

So when do you get your elephant howdah?
How’s the elephant gonna feel about that muzzle blast?

Not cool. It's a damn shame.

Well, NOT A SHAME ...... I LIKE IT ... I would have liked 16" barrels like the WR to avoid the NFA registration, but the under-barrel sling swivel was in the way and it would have made a goofy looking rifle with a sling swivel right under the front of the muzzle. Cutting off the barrels at the back of the sling swivel base resulted in 14.1" barrel length. The front site was a magazine tube ring that I found in my junk drawer. A howdah rifle is used at very close range, so you aim with the ring above the rear site, and put your intended target's face in the center of the ring. ... "easy peasy"

I will enjoy bringing it to gun shows and hearing all the guys commenting .. "YOU DID WHAT?" .. I get similar comments on my custom 25acp NE Double Rifle.

I will be testing and load work-up as soon as the snow melts from last week's blizzard. We got 16" in 24 hours.

How is the permit for a short barrel rifle or shotgun if the barrels are already cut? So you have an illegal gun. Will they come after you?

You cannot cut the barrels until "AFTER" you get the permit. It took about 6 weeks after I applied. Then the barrels were cut. That's the permit that I posted above. Interesting that the TAX STAMP says "ZERO DOLLARS" It used to cost $200. I had to submit 2 sets of fingerprints and a passport type photo with the application. I also had to have my name and city and state, laser engraved on the action. My dealer has the engraver to do this. Lots of red tape, but it went smoothly.

Removed per Buck's request

Thanks Marks_21, thank you for understanding and for not spoiling my fun -

Whoever owns the gun has the right to decide what happens to it. If we insist "we" have this right, we have to agree "they" also have it.
Mike

It was Marks_21 that discovered my secret .... now that the cat is out of the bag. .....

This has been a fun posting .. and yes ... I did actually cut off the barrel(s) and obtained an NFA license for a short barrel rifle. I called Holland and Holland, and a set of replacement barrels would cost $40,000 pounds - that's $52,000 in U.S. dollars, and 2 years to complete the new barrels. (I'm 75) My hacksaw was free. So now the fun is over, and just like Paul Harvey's Radio Talk Show, "... Now you know the rest of the story..."

SEE THIS LINK -
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/1149509900

I have now told the whole story, and have enjoyed all the criticism before doing so.

Apparently the gun was blown up many, many, years ago when trying to regulate it for U.S. loaded ammo. According to the lady that consigned it for sale ... after it blew up, her Great Grandfather put it away, and her Grandfather never did anything with it either, and neither did her Dad, (who passed away) and then it sat for many more years until she sent it for sale. I think the high cost of replacement barrels back then prevented the repair. Current cost for Holland and Holland to make a set of replacement barrels is over $40,000 pounds ($52,500 U.S. dollars).... and more than a 2 year wait.

If I had to guess what happened, the left barrel was fired first, and the recoil dislodged the bullet from its case in the right barrel, which acted like an obstruction when the right trigger was pulled, which blew up the barrel. Copper fowling at the muzzle was evident in the left barrel, but none in the right barrel. Other than the blown up right barrel, the gun looks nearly unfired, even "Mint". Not even a hint of brass transfer on the recoil shields.

It has been a fun read Buckstix

Enjoy it!

I bet the muzzle bast will be memorable.

What a beautiful rifle.

If I owned it I would send it back to Holland and have barrels made for it exactly as it was originally made. I was fortunate to have owned a similar Royal in 500/450 made in 1906 for Lord Clifton. My 500/450 as well as this one were both regulated for the 365gr bullet. I always thought that odd since the primary 500/450 bullet weight was 480grs.

Wouldn't it have made a decent single shot?
Also, why would a like new H&H have a cut out or spliced cheek section on the stock ?

I called Holland and Holland and current cost for Holland and Holland to make a set of replacement barrels is over $40,000 pounds ($52,500 U.S. dollars).... and more than a 2 year wait. Current value for a near identical used gun is less than $45,000 dollars.

https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...nd-royal-500-450-ne.cfm?gun_id=103466892

My 1904 H&H Royal 500/450 was regulated for the 365 and 480 grain bullets. Do you have a letter from H&H?

Ken

see my original post .. shows the letters . https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=671576#Post671576

This was a fun read... I too, would like to know why the butt stock was spliced...

I would bet that a leather covered cheek piece was removed, when I have removed them and fit wood in to the void I have hidden the joint in the finish.

I am unsure about the big splice in the top comb of the stock. It is very professionally inlet into the stock and was perhaps done at the time of the build. The insert is seamless and hardly noticeable.

Buckstix,

Thank you for letting us in to the real reason that underlay what seemed at first sight to be an extraordinary decision.

I hope that your original posts did not carry off too many forum readers with apoplexy.

I have seen a best quality Lang SLE double rifle with very similar damage, a massive split well down the barrel (and therefore the pressure curve) but no sign that I could see of the start of a ring bulge that you would expect from an in bore obstruction.

I suspect that both might have been caused by using over hard homogeneous bullets, without the give afforded by a lead core.

I believe that SKB is right in thinking that it once had a rubber cheek piece.

Looking at the photos it seems that the insert is cut from the original stock - suggesting that Holland and Holland were not over enthusiastic about the idea and preserved the insert in the case for later replacement.

Absolutely *NOT*.

This kind of damage is not too rare and has been well described in gun examiners' reports and literature. It has appeared always as the same, and its reason was not what you surmise.

To name it:
Faulty fluid barrel steel with linear inclusions.
(Has also been variously described in this forum over the years, as I can see)


Proofing could and would often detect such flaws, but not always.


With 95 % or rather 98 % likelihood, NOT.

Carcano

This is not my rifle so it was not my decision to make but I believe that to avoid the permitting I would have cut the barrels to 16" and move the sling swivel backward to the forearm. As an alternative, if I still lived in Germany, I might have had the barrels sleeved by a German friend to 45-70 case head cartridge (much cheaper than 40,000 pounds and smaller "piston" to transfer forces to locking lugs"). In the situation this is only "Monday morning quarterbacking").
Mike

Hello Mike

The split in the right barrel prohibited anything longer than 15-1/2" .. so a SBR permit would still have been required, with a goofy looking rifle. I like this cartridge, not interested in sleeved barrels.

Buckstix,
PM sent,
Parabola