doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Questions on a 10 gauge Greener

Good afternoon:
I have picked up a nice Greener SxS 10 gauge x 2 7/8" shotgun. It is the "Treble Wedge Fast" lock, with the Haymarket St address on the barrels. The proofs are ones used between 1887 and 1896, and with the barrels stating "winner at all trials 1875 to 1890" it must be 1891 - 1896. I do not see any Nitro or Not For Ball marking so presumably this one is BP only. The lockup is tight, the locks are crisp and the 32" barrels have no pitting, but the left hand one has a tiny dent about halfway up. The thing weighs a ton.

Two questions:
1. It has an unusual marking on the barrel next to the usual Crown/BP Cursive mark, a partially obscured word, which I cannot make out (not the Greener elephant, which is easily visible on both barrels). Has anyone seen this word in its entirety to know what it is?
2. I would like to shoot it. I expect that while it might handle gentle smokeless ok it would be best to use BP. I have shot some old percussion and cartridge English and Scottish 12G before, but havenot reloaded 10 G BP before; what do the experienced folks on this forum recommend for a hull? I see brass 10G 2 5/8"and 2 7/8" casings on Buffalo, but also see that some people use paper with a roll crimp. Not sure how successful I would be finding 10G paper hulls. I have used some plastic hulls with BP in 12G x 2 1/2"; anyone done that with 10G?

Thanks in advance.

Ed

Greener photos

Took a shot at getting your photos up on the board:





Sorry, I can’t help with questions about this particular gun.

Welcome aboard.

Best,
Ted

Thanks! I only seemed to be able to put a link in to the photos! That is much better, but I added some photos of the gun itself to the folder as well if people want to see it.

Ed

Very nice gun, but I would get a gunsmith to check wall thicknesses and also raise the “tiny dent” before deciding to shoot it.

Greener often marked the gun’s grade at the tail of the trigger guard tang. Is there anything engraved there?

The dent will definitely be raised before shooting; it can be seen in the correct lighting on the exterior, I can't see it looking down the barrel but it must be there. There is no grade stamped on the trigger guard tang, just the serial number, 33293.

Ed

With the dent raised and wall thickness checked you may be okay with smokeless. There is a lot of low pressure 10 ga. info on the Parker collectors site. Check out the reloading forum.

In Graham Greener's book that serial was listed as being made in 1890.

If the dent is not visible inside the barrels that is a good reason to get the wall thicknesses measured as that may indicate that the bore had been honed.

As to the grade it appears to be a Facile Princeps action, and at page 121 illustration 249 of Graham Greener’s book there is a picture of a F16 or Forester grade gun with the same machine applied decoration.

F16 stands for Facile Princeps 16 guineas.

I can’t puzzle out the mystery marking ???PA?

Does it also appear on the other barrel?

I've used plastic with heavy charges of BP and shot (120 grs of 2F or coarser and 1 12 oz of shot) out of a modern Spanish 10 gauge for cowboy shooting here in the US. Case life with plastic is short, although the Remington hulls lasted much longer than the Federal hulls.

Never seen paper hulls (not that I have looked). I use a mix of Rocky Mountain CNC'd all brass. Very expensive, at least $10 per hull and up. I have also used various antique brass hulls, the #57 used for primers can be replaced by a standard large pistol primer. The antique hulls can be found at gun shows and maybe eBay or the equivalent. I don't think there are restrictions on exporting these to Canada, but I am not 100% sure.

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I took a really good look down the barrel with the dent with varying lighting and can see a very small defect where the dent is--it should come out nicely. I will definitely have my smith check the wall thickness. Thanks for the information on the grade!
The lettering in question is quite small and worn and there may be a trace of the same stamping on the other barrel in the same place, but only the top of what might be the P and the A? I guess it probably doesn't matter!

Ed

Agreed. Looks identical to my former circa early 1890's "Forester" grade Greener. I will see if I can dig up my old posts on it.