doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Origins/early history of the Merkel OU ...

Apparently the 1st O/U Merkels wore Octagonal tubes(pattern welded??))¿¿¿¿¿


Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

Neat that the frame too has to mate w/ the Octagonal nature....






Most interesting forend latch. There looks to be a stamp of >>H. Barrella ..... BTe<< on the flats??


https://bestguns.de/Auktion/2704/Hahndoppelbuechse-Barella-Achtkantlauf-in-Damaststahl.html

Evidently similar to this H. Barella that wears the Crown over V(Vorrat) or on-hand stamp which dates it to early 1893. Originally it was Kaliber .500 BPE then atlered to 28 Bore @65mm. Patterned welded rifled tubes are almost as scarce as hen's teeth.

Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

Nah, under enlargement it seems to read F. ???????



Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

Gebrüder Merkel filed for trademark protection for the name „Bock“ in 1931. There just does not seem that much was going on w/ the DoppelBock until after WWI, 1924 or later.....


Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

Interesting. I alway thought Merkel was building OUs by 1900. Your explanation explains why I've never seen one from before the 1930s.

So who was building the OUs that Lancaster put their name on? I checked on IGC, and it looks like their OUs started appearing around 1909.

I thought Lancaster's first OUs caused a lot of controversy in the UK trade because the actions were coming from Europe and then the guns were being finished by Lancaster, and sold as "British".

Here's another one:

https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...cool-gun-from-1907-.cfm?gun_id=103420914

Glad you enjoyed the show.

OWD

I was pressing Dig on it late on the day in Saturday, but my Boys were tired, worn & ready for some Indian food. So Dig just skimmed across the surface. I have no idea if Boss was making theirs or sourcing in 1909. I have never really been a stacked smokepole fan, but then again I do have custody of a French Merkel and several Austrian Kombos so I guess. It just seems to be it is more difficult to load a staked smokepole rather than a Side X Side. I should dig a bit more. I will contact Dig and see what he gives.

Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

Remember H.A.A. Thorn was @ the Helm at the time of the O/U arrived on the scene in 1909 and he already had a Vierling 20 Bore(1882 I believe) & Vierling Howdah Pistol. So, Thorn may have adapted 1/2 of his Vierling???

>>Charles Lancaster's son Alfred set up his own business in 1859, in competition to his father Charles. When Charles died in 1878 his business was bought by HAA Thorn who, rather confusingly, passed himself off as Mr Charles Lancaster. Meanwhile Alfred was buying in guns from Webley & Scott for finishing. He made 'Civil Service' back action and 'Anglo Indians' models for India. He made a 'Grosvenor' model hammer gun for �14.15.0, though if you ordered front action bar locks the price went up to �15.10.0 The 'Grosvenor Hammerless' A&D non-ejector with Damascus barrels went for �15 guineas and an ejector model for �28.5.0 to order only. Alfred died in 1890 when both W&C Scott and WJ Jeffery became involved in building guns for the family. Two years later the books were taken over by HAA Thorn, who then controlled all Lancaster gun making.

Thorn went on to make many fine guns in the Lancaster workshops by Masters account. They included the 'Colonial Quality' top lever, self-adjusting, snap action hammer gun with Damascus barrels and rebounding back-action locks for �20; the hammerless version had automatic trigger safeties and automatic blocking safeties, with top or side lever, in three qualities for �27, �36 and �45. The 'Colindian' had smooth oval bore rifling to fire ball or shot. He went on to make guns for Annie Oakley.
Some C Lancaster guns have a .2 or .3 appended to their serial number, indicating that they were extra barrels or later 'fitter's in'. In the 1890s guns were being built for all pockets. B and C grade guns were often prefixed with 0 or 00 respectively. The quality of the mechanism in the B or 0 grade boxlocks was the same as in the best boxlock, but the polish and finish of the internal mechanism was not as fine as in the best gun quality. In the 00 guns a �limited use of machinery� was combined with �skilled hand labour�. Thorn called his boxlocks �body action� guns.

The 1893 price list has 2 best sidelocks, 3 hammergun grades (including 0 and 00), 2 0 grade body action & 2 �Colonial Quality� body action guns, the �Colindian� ball and shot and high quality Express ejector double rifles. Other combinations were also available. Phillipson & Nephew and BSA were the main barrel suppliers for cheaper grade guns.

In 1909 Thorn made what became known as the Lancaster Wristbreaker, based very much on Frederick Beesley�s 1884 patent single spring operating boxlock type action. Beesley built a small number of guns on this action though Thorn clearly had an arrangement with him to use the patent too, as Lancaster Wristbreaker boxlocks exist built in the 1880s. That patent had expired when Thorn developed it for sidelock guns, to begin with only his best guns, but later with variations to the design for other guns.

In 1910 Thorn was selling a Lancaster grade B boxlock over and under ejector gun for �55 guineas, a non-ejector version for �50 guineas and a grade A sidelock ejector for �75 guineas.<<


https://www.doublegunshop.com/forum...p;Board=1&main=31650&type=thread

Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

H.A.A. Thorn could have easily imported such an O/U action as he was sourcing @ will but he could have gleaned info from F. Beesley or even Boss. For the moment I just do not know. If his name was in the Gebrüder Ledger, I think it would stick out like a sore thumb?


Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

>>Vintage Doubles has mutton-chop lock Damascus on his WS.<<

If find this phrase most amusing.....



Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

But I will go on record, for now, and say that I really just do not think Gebrüder Merkel attained the moniker of the „DoppelBock“ King until they filed for trademark protection in 1931. Almost always in looking back in time, the narrative gets twisted as well as compressed. There just isn't any „Bock“ info and few „Bock“ examples, if any, of Gebrüder Merkel „Bock“ Platforms till the 1930s when the platforms became money makers and exponentially increase their exposure.


Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse