doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com 20 Ga. 1878 Reilly top-lever, hammer-gun

I'm going to post this here since some don't read the Reilly history line:

There is a wreck of a Reilly on Guns International. Awful replacement stock. looks off face. Cheap. But it does have 30" Damascus and is 20 gauge, top-lever, hammer-gun, a top quality Damascus 3 iron British best pattern and really nice engraving; at one time it was something. Someone might be able to restore it.

It is SN 21382 which would date to spring 1878. However it appears to have 277, Oxford Street, London address, an address which did not appear until early November 1881 when the numbers changed. Perhaps it was rebarreled or refurbished at some time. Pictures of water table and barrel flats have been requested. It should have a Scott spindle patent number on it. (this is the 746th Reilly in the database whose parameters are known).

Edit: The tang has been cut probably when the stock was replaced

https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...nglish-side-by-side.cfm?gun_id=103481906

From what I've observed on Gunbroker people listing there think that they have the rarest firearm ever made.

Man, that is rough. I’ve been places that had a 55 gallon barrel with guns that look like that piled in it, and a price of $5-$10 on them.

Just not recently.

Best,
Ted

The seller forwarded photos of the water table and the barrel flats:

Water table confirms that the SN was 21382. It has the Scott Spindle patent use number WWS PUN 8358 as expected. Purdey Patent 1104 expired May 1877 (though there are some Reilly actions from after that time period with it still displayed). Scott Spindle continued to be active for another two years. Reilly SN 21377 has WWS PUN 3587. ReillY SN 21839 has WMS PUN 8699.


However the barrel flats have 1887-1896 proof marks, The barrel tubes have no SN's. This coupled with the 277 Oxford Street address indicates the gun was rebarrelled in that time period:



I have not asked about the condition of the bores but the seller seems very responsive. Realize restoring this gun would be a stretch but again, with that engraving at one time it was quite an excellent firearm.

Gene,
ANYTHING, can be restored. If you have the budget, the sky is the limit. Having said that, and this is critical, not everything SHOULD be restored.
Our own James Flynn detailed his restoration of a German double, much loved by the family that owned it, but, James believed, after the dust settled, that it really belonged in one of the canals around the area it was used in. Heritage is a thing that can lead to $15K thrown at an old car, gun, or, motorcycle that will net $1500 at auction.

Or, worse.

Tread carefully.

Best,
Ted

Thanks for the advice Ted. But no temptation here. IGave up restoring antiques when I sold my 1954 DBD Gold Star, the fastest BSA flat-tracker in North Carolina . .traded it along with extra magnetos, an extra frame, etc. for a Norton Commando disassembled in a box.

Wow, only $899.00 for a small bore English hammer double!

I suppose it might be worth as much as a couple hundred to a buyer who needed some orphan barrels or other critical and hard to find parts. It seems the price of parts has increased more than the price of guns in recent years. It might be a good practice piece for a determined budding gunsmith too, at the right price. But even a half decent restoration would put most buyers under water, no matter how cheap they got it.

Ted is 100% right. A friend who did several muscle car restoration jobs advised another friend who wanted to buy a 1965 Mustang to restore to just buy one already done, and save himself a ton of money, time, and aggravation. Six months later, he found one at a fraction of the cost of restoration, and was immediately enjoying driving it. And if he sells it, he may be able to recoup much of his cost. But he will miss out on all the joy of replacing body panels, patching, sand blasting, painting, engine rebuilding, parts searching, and buying thousands of dollars worth of tools and materials.

Been there, done that.

I bought my 1967 442 for $3850 back in 1996, and gave it the once over. I didn’t want a show car, actually considered towing my boat with it, just wanted a driver. I think I added up receipts that, with the purchase price of the car included, add up to $10K. It was expensive to buy paint and materials then, it is incredibly expensive, now. It is what I call “Driver +”, nicer than most cars with a restoration about the same age. I came out OK, I expect I’ll beat the investment I have in it if and when I sell it.

I bought a Tobin 16 gauge about the same time. I think I paid $300 for it. Randy Murray restocked it with some English his dad bought in the 1940s, that the pieces were too small for most projects. He charged me $1K, I had the top lever and barrels rust blued, after I polished them, for $99 at Glen Rock blue, and Stan Baker relieved the extra full and extra full chokes, and relieved the forcing cone steps in the tubes for about $125. I sold the gun only because I was already sick of the Easter egg hunt for short, low pressure ammunition for $1500. The buyer just called me last week to BS, and thanked me for selling the gun to him. I came out pretty close, but, I might not if I tried that same thing again, today.

Unless you can do most of the labor yourself, approach any restoration project with clear eyes. I’d be willing to bet that many marriages end over a restoration that ends up sideways about halfway through.

Best,
Ted

The above gun is not a restoration project, it is a money pit. Run, don't walk away.

The very most important choice you make in a restoration is which gun to put your effort and or money into. Choose a good candidate and restorations can be very rewarding, actually some of the more enjoyable work that I do and special skill set itself. Last year I had a very high grade Belgium boxlock come in the shop that had been dropped on the asphalte as the owner was crossing a guardrail, it had deep scratches in the barrel blue and the action was damaged it a few areas around the fences. The owner did not know he had cracked the stock as well. I was able to repair the wood, polish and blue the barrels, my engraver touched up the action with some micro-welding and re-cut a few areas, I blended out his work did not need to recolor the action. The owner was delighted with the outcome, it looked great. It was not inexpensive but the owner felt it was well worth the costs.

Not all guns are worth restoring, most are not, that does not mean that restorations cannot be done reasonably or they are all money pits. Select wisely and proceed...or don't, your choice.

Interesting about the 442 Ted. In 1972 I bought a BSA "Gold Star" 500cc single in Northern Virginia which was essentially a punched out Victor with a big tank. I think I paid $700.00 for it brand new. I took it to Daytona. . .took it to Singapore where I rode it all over the city and West Malaysia for two years - had to rebuild it. ..took it to Pakistan but only rode it a few times over 4 years because the traffic was just too scary. Brought it back to the USA in 1979 and took it to Daytona again. When I went to Africa in 1980 I stored it and my 1968 Triumph TT Special punched up to 790cc with a Sonny Routt kit and Harmen-Collens 6-9 cam combo. It was stored in Tuscaloosa in a shed on property owned by my brother's wife's family. Both were stolen out of the shed.

BSA - Bastard Stopped Again

Edit: Realize this morning that Ted was taking about an Oldsmobile 442 and I was talking about the BSA Victor 441cc single cylinder 4-stroke motorcycle. Haha