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The ignorant speak loudly about that of which they are ignorant.

I have shot about close to 8,000 smokeless cartridges in one of my Damascus barrel guns and over 1,000 in the other. I'm just as comfortable shooting them with 2 1/2" cartridges as I am my modern guns with 2 3/4" cartridges.

Ed, whole heartedly agree with you about the smell.

Common sense suggests one examine the barrels, consider what pressures they were proofed for, determine condition, quantify what if any changes have been made (honing, lengthening the chambers etc) and then make a determination about whether the barrels are suitable to be shot and with what powders at what max pressures. Blanket statements don;t reflect common sense.

Blanket statements like DAMASCUS UNSAFE don't reflect common sense, they reflect a many decades long campaign by the gun industry to sell new guns with new (at the time) fluid steel barrels.

I just looked at a bunch of ''NEW'' shotgun shell boxes of different makes, every one says on the box,
Do Not Use In Damascus or Twist Steel Barrels, or chambers less than than 2 3/4in. But some of you
guys know better than Remington, Winchester, or Federal and so forth.

Dirty Harry

P.S. They have not made Damascus Barrels in over 110 years or so, but they still put that warning on the
boxes to ''SELL'' Steel Barrel Shotguns Ha HA Ha. Who are you kidding ?

Oh geez.

Harry, I'm going to attempt to explain something to you that you obviously do not understand. Nothing to be embarrassed about when someone is ignorant about something, unless it is explained and that person refuses to acknowledge facts. I'm ignorant of many things, but education can cure ignorance of any topic. So, here goes.

There are two things that blow up barrels and they both are caused by excessive pressure. One is a severe overload in the cartridge/shell. This can cause a chamber blow-out. The other is an obstruction in the barrel, which also causes excessive pressure, which causes a burst further down the bore. The second almost always results in a burst just behind the obstruction. What you're referring to is the first. Remember, an excessively overloaded shell, resulting in excessive chamber pressure, never results in a burst barrel further down the bore, unless there is an obstruction down bore as well.

Now, let's address the shell, in your case, smokeless loads in a damascus barrel. Not to beat a dead horse but, when you assume a smokeless load will blow up a gun, it is actually PRESSURE. I know you like to capitalize words that you are emphasizing so I'll follow your lead here.

Now, I want you to think about that pressure. Excessive pressure in the chamber/load is caused by inappropriate powder, or an overcharge of powder, or some other combination of inappropriate components or, in an unimaginably rare case, an overload AND an obstruction directly in front of the chamber, which is HIGHLY unlikely. The thing that you evidently don't understand is that the TYPE of powder (black or smokeless) is not the cause, in itself, of excessive pressure. It's the AMOUNT of pressure that matters. To put this in grade school terms, the chamber/barrel does not know if the pressure generated is done so by black powder, or smokeless powder. You could blow up a barrel with no powder at all if you could generate enough pressure inside it with a liquid, or with just air. Perazzi does this regularly with liquid to test their barrels.

Just try to think in terms of pressure, not the medium that generates the pressure. As I said in an earlier post on another thread, I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.

dirty harry: Are you Harry Gietler?

its not just about barrels being damaged by too much pressure...

its also about old stock heads being damaged by excessive recoil...

and regarding decision making re the suitability of twist/damascus steel barrels for safe shooting of cartridges loaded with smokeless powder...

best to start with the premise that they are all unsuitable and unsafe until individually proven otherwise...

Yea, but, ed, it is high pressure ammunition that destroys old guns. My Nitro was built with 2 3/4” chambers, if that is important to you, why would you buy guns that need to have their chambers lengthened?

I looked all over that picture of the box you posted. There was NOTHING about pressure, CIP, or anything else that would give me confidence that the ammunition is, actually, low pressure. I get a kick out of people, who literally HAVE NO CLUE how much pressure some ammunition makes pontificating about the suitability of it for some hapless old gun.

The endless parade of stupid.

Best,
Ted

I cannot believe I am the only person on this board that has seen Damascus barreled guns sent back to England and reproofed for Nitro.

Ignorance is bliss. There is many blissful people in the world.