doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion German & Austrian Sporting Guns @ doublegunshop.com want to buy a cheap merkel or similar

i want to buy an old and cheap s/s and came across simpsonltd. i see a lot of merkels/ayas and brnos for sale. what should i be wary of when looking for an old merkel. it will be used for rough shooting. ducks/geese/pheasant/grouse in wet/cold/snowy conditions. want english stock and 2 triggers.

will only shoot steel with light loads. can open chokes as needed.

no idea if doing anything to forcing cones should be considered.

any advice or options would be greatly appreciated. also other cheap shops like simpsonltd.

thanks.

There use to be another website that had tonnes of the Post WWII offerings. If indeed shooting steel, I would source one with good steel for the period and quite thick tubes which can be opened up..... After WWII, all the gunmakers were consolidated under the same umbrella to make War reparations for Russian elites & Hunters. So, for the most part, almost all are the same...

Although I have not used steel, but I have been pleased for 20+ years with tubes stamped near the lower rib >>Simson - Special Gewehr Lauf Stahl SP1<<, which @ one time used the 4 Ringe Olympic Style Stamp and at one time, we thought we knew the steel origin, but the origin seems to have been masked and maybe it was just advertising....

Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

Thank you very much Raimey. I used to have a nice 47 e but stupidly sold it in a slump and went to all 20g. Now want something like that back for fun, but limited in finances.

Ill keep looking for something.

Here's a recent thread & use >>DDR<< and/or >>GDR<< in your search engine:

https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=519154&page=all

I have performed a cursory search, but didn't find for what I was looking.

Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

Keep checking Gunbroker. Lots of them show up. Simson, Sauer, Geco. Most of them made in Suhl.

Thanks again. i will keep looking. Your link helped me understand a little.

One of our Russian Contributors makes a good point & I have found this to be true, for the most part:

>>It wouldn't be quite correct to generalize, however, that all East German guns were inferior in quality. At one time, to avoid competition, the major brands collected under the Ernst Thellman umbrella (which was really first and foremost a way of keeping Suhl gunmaking as close to old traditions as was possible while maintaining a Socialist facade), were given different market niches. And Merkel, sadly, was lowest. To compensate, they were given the sport versions of the O/U, which got Olympic fame, but their sporting guns were the cheapest of all. Sauer was better, and Simson best, but the truly best-of-the-best in GDR was Buhag. They could make an A&D boxlock as nice as anyone.<<


https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=295547&page=all

Still I am searching for that website that had tonnes of GDR guns..


Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

Ah, hah..... Blackbern 575 Arms.....



https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=253367&page=all

Apparently they are defunct? But you might try his phone # or email contact......



Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

I hunted in West Germany a great deal from 1972 to 1982 and being a "gun nut" I paid attention to the guns my German friends were using. Except for a few guns that were successfully hidden from the authorities after the war, most of the guns they used were made after the war including those mentioned by Raimey above plus Fortuna, Sodia, Brno, and a couple other Austrian makers. Most of the WW2 veteran age hunters used 16-gauge 70mm chambered guns but one of my closest friends did use a 20-gauge 70mm and another used a 12-gauge 70mm chambered gun. Many of the sons of these hunters used 12-gauge 70mm chambered guns and I noticed as time went on, 12-gauge guns became more prevalent and 16-gauge less so. All of these were "kipplauf" guns and O/U became more prevalent with the younger hunters. During all that time I noticed only one hunter using a shot gun that was not a kipplauf, and it was a pump that had a custom stock made to be used by a severely damaged hand. All these postwar guns were perfectly useable and there was no noticeable difference in effectiveness between these and the few prewar guns, except they used modern 2 3/4" shells (2 1/2" shells were easily available for the pre-war guns). Most of the postwar guns were fairly plainly adorned at first, owing to the economic situation and demand for guns to hunt with. As time went on, more and more finely engraved guns started appearing as the economy improved. In my opinion, which may not be shared by others, anyone looking for a German gun to use (especially if changes to choke or other features are planned) should just "buy the gun" without prejudice toward postwar or Eastern Bloc guns. Given the difference in collector prices between older and newer or communist made guns, it is natural that owners of the more costly guns want to consider theirs "better", but at the same time will condemn any change as "ruining" the gun. If you can find a gun you like, for a price you can afford, and can have changes made to make it better meet your needs, there is no reason not to buy it. If you are looking, I suggest you look at Simpson Ltd.
Mike

thank you Mike. I'm looking at Simpson. Am ok getting something in rough shape and shipping it to get chokes bored out. No idea if doing forcing cones will do anything.

I hunt a little, but on average fire less than a box of shells all season.

its an itch i would like to scratch.