doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Gun Safe Concerns..........

I recently bought a Golden Rod Moisture Control. (Humidity Sensor) It has the sensor on the inside of the safe which monitors the humidity inside the safe and out in the room. I read where the humidity should stay between about 30-50% which is considered ideal. Getting below 20% could cause the wood in a gun to "shrink, warp and crack". Getting down to 25% is a concern. The moisture in my safe has been slowly creeping down lower and lower and is now at 26%.The room is at 23%. The past day I left the light out in the safe, but the room and safe get down to about 56 degrees because there is no heat inside the room until I turn on a space heater in the evening when I use the room. I use a 40 watt light bulb to heat the safe and it usually stays about 70 degrees inside the safe all year around. It gets up to about 70 degrees in the room in the evenings when I use the space heater, but I turn it off when I go to bed. I never worried about humidity before I bought this hygrometer a few weeks ago. I have never had any problems with the wood in my guns cracking or any damage to any of them. I never dreamed my house was so dry. Do any of you keep tabs on the humidity inside your gun safe? If so, what do you keep your humidity at?

Never worried about humidity. I repurposed an old, big, Mosler safe almost twenty years ago. It was the safe for an automobile dealership near here, originally. I removed the secondary steel doors and the wooden drawers, etc., then carpeted the inside. I then drilled a hole through the floor (about 8-9" thick) to run the cord for the Golden Rod I bought. it lays on the floor of the safe, toward the front, always on. I have had guns in it for all these years with no humidity monitoring. Never one bit of a problem, even though the safe is in a mostly unheated room with a concrete floor.

It stays warm inside without any hint of moisture problems, even though there are times when the outside of the old safe is totally wet with condensation. I've never understood how the warmth inside eliminates, or at least renders harmless, the humidity. I live in a very humid environment.

Humidity and condensation are relative. A golden rod does not remove water. It simply raises the temperature and thereby the amount of water that the air can hold, thus preventing condensation. Exactly the opposite of what a cold beer does on a warm, humid afternoon. Pretty simple chemistry.

Stan,
The problem is not the humidity, per se. The problem is condensation. If you keep the guns in the safe just a bit warmer than ambient air temperature the moisture in the air can’t condensate out on the guns. You get a bonus for having the higher humidity in that the wood is happier at 60% room humidity than it would be at 22%.

Most of the time, it is inconsistent temperature that causes the metal parts to form condensation, and get rusty.

Best,
Ted

Except, it isn’t chemistry, Prof.

It is physics. Make note of it.

Best,
Ted

Obviously you've never taken any chemistry classes.Phase changes are important.

It sounds like DimmyW should remove the guns from his safe, install some racks, and use the thing as a food dehydrator. He could become one of those guys who sells jerky at gun shows.

But with 23% humidity in the room, he may have already dehydrated his brain into a raisin... which would explain some things.

Years ago, when I bought a baby grand piano for my wife, I checked into proper care and humidity levels. The optimum humidity for pianos is 45-50% at 68 degrees. Stradivarius violins are maintained around the same levels. And a museum conservator told me they try to maintain a stable 45-50% relative humidity and temperatures of 65-70 degrees F. for antique wood furniture and other wood objects. There seems to be a general consensus that humidity levels lower than 40% for wood objects can lead to shrinkage and cracking issues. The ideal moisture content for properly seasoned wood itself will read much lower if checked with a moisture meter (6 to 8% optimal for gunstocks). But moisture content of wood, and the humidity surrounding it, are two very different things.

😛 ^^^^^ I can't see what this person says ^^^^^^because I ignore them and no longer read their posts, so if I interrupted them whoever they are- sorry about that.^^^^^^^^ I was going to say-- I used to use a golden rod in my safe, but the darn thing heated up so hot that it melted the rubber tip on the end. That's when I figured they were dangerous, so I went to a light bulb. And like I said, I guess my house is a lot dryer in the winter than I thought. In the summer it is so humid I constantly have to run a dehumidifier in the basement almost all summer long. That is why I was never concerned about dryness in the winter. I just started leaving the light out with the door closed and the humidity is going back up. Supposedly 30-50% is ideal. So, we'll see what happens. Thanks for your opinions, gentlemen. I really appreciate it.

That totally makes sense. Thanks for the explanation. I like it when something simple works so well, like that Goldenrod.

I store all my guns in "Gun Socks" and never had any issues with rust. Also protects them from bumping around each other inside the safe.

Good idea, PALUNC.

I suppose one could polish a piece of high carbon steel and hang it in the gun safe as a sentinel for rust.

My storage is technically in an unheated basement although the burner is down there. I've been using gold rods for close to 20 years, nothing has ever developed rust.
This includes the time about a half inch of water backed up into the basement, everything felt damp until it drained, but the safe contents were fine. They are all on pallets, 4 inches above the slab.

I kept a monster three door money safe on my carport for years to store my better guns when I was out of town. Sometimes, I would leave guns in there for weeks. Yes, it was outside. Never had a Goldenrod, or any problems with rust.

My basement is finished with tung and groove knotty pine. It has a tile floor and in the summer I have to keep an eye on the floor because tiny droplets of water will form on the floor because of the moisture coming up from the concrete floor underneath. So then I will have to run a dehumidifier. It has heat down there and stays really warm because of being underground.

Goldenrods have been frequently mentioned. Welp, 33 years ago my wife gave me my first gun safe, a Fort Knox. The gentleman she bought it from was the husband of one of her employees and Roger gave me a Goldenrod as a BD present. It has run continuously since February of 1993. The safe was first in the basement of our farm house and the basement leaked like a sieve. 2 inches of water on the north end was not unheard of. The south end never got wet. The safe was under the stairs and often stood in an inch of water. I never had rust on a firearm the remaining 10 years we were on the farm. That's just the way it was.

Yes, it's physics, thermodynamics.

Chief

(1) The amount of humidity (vapor pressure, gas behavior, and temperature effects) is the discipline of PHYSICS. (2) The change from gas to liquid (condensation) is PHYSICS (3) The chemical reaction of metal with water (rust/corrosion) is the discipline is CHEMISTRY (4) The biological degradation by moisture (mold growth) is biological CHEMISTRY. Since all of this could happen in a safe, I would say: EVERYBODY"S RIGHT!! 😄

^^^^^^^^ DimmyW will see this Post ^^^^^^^ because DimmyW only pretends to IGNORE me.... just like the Nutty Professor.


Actually DimmyW, the tiny droplets that form on the tile floor of your basement is condensation forming from the hot humid western Ohio air that gets in during the summer months. It's a thermodynamic process. Like Ted and ChiefAmungum say, it's not chemistry.


Wrong again DimmyW... nobody was even talking about biological processes or mold growth, and nobody had mentioned rust either. The argument between Ted and the Nutty Prof was about relative humidity and condensation. So your Liberal Left pal the Nutty Professor was wrong again... kinda like Al Gore is so often. The Nutty Prof should stick to his cute furry mammals. Now if the Nutty Professor had blown up his gun safe with an overload of 5744 powder and primers, as he did with his Rock Island Model of 1903 Springfield rifle, then THAT would be chemistry.

P.S.- Lake Erie is now 100% frozen over for the first time since 1994, and it is going down to -13 degrees F tonite here. My area is on track to break the 1936 record of consecutive sub-zero nights. You call it Climate Change, and live in a state of fear and panic. Normal people call it a slightly colder than average Winter.

^^^^^ I can't see what this person is saying anymore - because I decided it's best to IGNORE them.^^^^ But, the relative humidity in my safe is staying around 23%. That's pretty darn low according to what I have read. I was always concerned about humidity and my guns rusting. That is why I got the hydrometer. But just the opposite is happening. I guess that 40 watt bulb is doing its job. I haven't seen where anyone else keeps a hydrometer in their safe. So, I'll just see what happens. Thanks for your opinions. I appreciate it. Now I will go back to watching Outdoor America/ Scott Linden's Windshooting USA. They are pheasant hunting right now. Awesome show!! 🙂

Jimmy, it's relative humidity. The dew point at which moisture would precipitate out of the ambient, (saturated)air, dictates when moisture would form on your guns,(or floors) causing problems. The moisture on your floors is typically not coming from below. The tiles are below dew point, moisture is precipitating out of the ambient air. There are charts available to determine that dew point in regards to air temp/relative humidity. As long as you keep the ambient air temp above the dew point moisture will remain in the surrounding air keeping your guns corrosion free. I would consider 25% RH to be uncomfortably dry in my home and detrimental to wood. As was mentioned pianos and as I am aware guitars enjoy 50/60% RH. I am very sure gunstocks and furniture appreciate the same! I strive to keep my home around 50% RH/74DF year round. This may require adding moisture at times. Hope this helps.

Chief

I stand corrected. Thanks for pointing this out. My basement is very damp in the summer. I do run a dehumidifier and have for decades. I just was shocked that it is so dry in the winter. I never noticed it before or had a hydrometer in my home. I have been considering a humidifier. I have been having so much going on lately. Doctors and dental visitations. Today I had a breaker box installed in my house because the main breaker in my home failed and left me with no electric. I'll get it in gear ASAP. Thanks for your advice and the advice from the others. It is really appreciated.