doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Info/ID - Emile Warnant of Liège in Next Category

War Eagles.

We must meet..... You never cease to make me chuckle......



Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

I wanted to post what I got back on another forum. Seems to line up well with the comments here and thanks to all who took the time to respond it's such a great thing to see how many people in the world can still take the time to help someone out. I believe we've decided to keep this one in our personal collection. It's just such a nice gun!!


This is an Emile Warnant-made Belgian boxlock non-ejector made on the Anson and Deeley action with a Greener crossbolt and Anson pushrod forend release. It was made in 1924 for export to France. It is a 16-gauge with 2.5" chambers and both barrels choked (you will need to measure the degree of choke with a gauge, as Belgian guns of this time were notoriously sloppy in terms of choke measurements).

Important marks of note: "c" denotes the year 1924. This jives with all the other proof marks on the gun.

The curious thing is that the inspector's mark (* over P) belonged to an inspector who was active from 1952 to 1960. Not sure why it's there unless the gun was reproofed at some point.

* over EM is Emile Warnant's maker's hallmark.

"Siemens-Martin Steel" means the barrels are fluid steel and made using the open-hearth process

"La Chauguette A Lisieux" means "The Watchtower of Lisieux." Lisieux is a commune in Normandy, about midway between Caen and Rouen. It was the site of the first successful manned helicopter flight in 1907 by Paul Cornu. The town was mostly destroyed in 1944 when the Allied bombardment of Normandy started prior to the D-Day landings. Cornu and 799 other civilians were killed. I would expect "La Chauguette A Lisieux" to be the name of a sporting goods/gun shop in Lisieux. Warnant tended to make guns for others.

France has accepted Belgian proofs without the need to reprove for some time, but the formation of the CIP in 1914 means that the gun was not required to be reproved in any CIP participant country.

"Importe De Belgique" is French for "Imported from Belgium." Again, a Belgian gun that was made for sale in France.

Some information on Emile Warnant. The Warnant Family, by the way, was a storied firearms manufacturing family in Belgium. There are many examples of their various guns out there.

Emile Warnant:

Arms manufacturer

Known addresses

Rue Lamarck, 101 Liège (04/19/1907)

Rue de la Jonction, 13 Brussels (17/08/1911)

Rue Jonruelle, 66 Liège (28/12/1921)

Rue Lamarck, 99 Liège (Ann. 1924)

Filing patents in Belgium

No. 199506 – 19/04/1907 Shotgun ejector

No. 238160 – 17/08/1911 Safety device for automatic firearms

No. 239653 – 18/10/1911 Safety device for automatic firearms (brvt ppal No. 238160 of 17/08/1911)

No. 300835 – 28/12/1921 Improvements to firearms

Littlegun.be has two examples that are very similar to your gun here (3rd and 5th guns on the page): https://littlegun.be/arme%20belge/artisans%20identifies%20t%20w/a%20warnant%20emile%20fr.htm

As for value, assuming there are no pits in the barrels or chambers or other issues, (Does it lock up tightly? Are the barrels on face?) I would put it in the $400 - $600 range if you're willing to sit on it until you find a buyer. It'll sell faster at a $300-$450 price point.

The only thing I see to add right off is that the 1st Major Disagreement in Europe put a lengthy halt on the CIP effort till maybe 10 years later?

Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

Too, the tubeset is under one serial number and made by one of the renown tubeset makers in Liège. It surely is a lot of gun for the values being tossed about. But that's typically the case when you add a French name to a Belgian doublegun.

Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

"the inspector's mark (* over P) belonged to an inspector who was active from 1952 to 1960"

Pre- c. 1930s inspector's marks can not be used to date a gun related to a fire in Liège, possibly at the L'école d'Armurerie de Liège (School of Liege Gun makers).
The marks were used repeatedly and the significance of some is unknown.

* over EM is Emile Warnant's maker's hallmark.

From above. Isn't the mark * over E. W ?

Good eyes on all fronts.




Serial #25384 that I lifted from Littlegun...... with a weight of 1390 grammes


Subject tubeset #26506 with a weight of 1180 grammes ; so that's only a gap of 1122 tubesets between them.

Looking @ the font(well maybe) & serial number sequence, LLH(Laurent Lochet-Habran) was almost without a doubt involved.

https://littlegun.be/arme%20belge/artisans%20identifies%20l/a%20lochet%20habran%20laurent%20gb.htm

Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

Looking a bit closer @ the weight stamp of the EW variant on Littlegun, there is a stamp under the weight stamp??


Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

Yep. Cockerill made the Siemens-Martin steel used by Laurent Lochet-Habran to make the tubes. There may be the barrel maker's initials somewhere also.
Same stuff used by almost all of the U.S. double gun makers. The ‘LLH’ mark is frequently found on Fulton and L.C. Smith Royal, Armor, London, Crown and even Nitro Steel barrels from 1914 to 1948, and also Fox, Ithaca, Lefever, Crescent, and Baker guns.

Buturlin cited studies conducted at TOZ (Tula Arms Plant) likely immediately before WWI listing Russian Siemens-Martin tensile strength as 85,300 – 92,400 psi so it is clear that the composition was modified compared to the original process steel, and multiple products were no doubt offered based on the intended application.

Pre-WWI Siemens may have been similar to AISI 1021 - 1034 Carbon Steels.
"The Sampling and Chemical Analysis of Iron and Steel", 1915
http://books.google.com/books?id=03w6AAAAMAAJ&dq

The 1918 Sears catalog states the Hunter Arms Fulton Gladiator “barrels are made of a high grade carbon steel, having a tensile strength of 85 to 95 thousand pounds to the square inch.”