doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Trying to identify this shotgun...

Hi all. I have read countless threads on the site, but this is my first post. I bought this old 12 gauge years and years ago, and despite all my searching (online and books), I have found it hard to identify it. It says Henry Richards on the lock plates, but when I look that up, I don't find one that looks quite like it. I really don't have much knowledge when it comes to European doubles. I would love to hear your thoughts. Not sure what the best way to share pictures is but I don't think this is it haha!

Thanks -Johnny

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Lots of folks were involved with that one!
Here's an old thread regarding the importer Henry Richards
https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=265056

Your gun is Belgian, made prior to 1893 but after 1877 (the single inspector's mark appears to be spangled rather than crowned)
Francotte likely supplied the barrels and possibly the action
'JD' was probably the barrel maker
?'LRH' the 2 iron crolle tube maker
Interesting crowned MGB? + another letter on the action flats. I tried to find that but couldn't. One would think Manufacture something?
https://www.hlebooks.com/daubres/li04.htm
Maybe you could chalk the mark and bring out the last letter? That may have been whoever finished the gun.

Hause, where was it you viewed a spangled Inspector's Mark? V surmounted by a Crown here?

Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

And that water-table stamp looks like >>MG - Bte<<.


Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

Another Henry, unfortunately without an image of the proof marks
https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...rds-hammer-12-gauge.cfm?gun_id=101877098

From the IGC - 5 Henry Richards
39 Fish Street Hill & 125 Strand, London c. 1808-9
Newbury c. 1850
11 Aston St, B'ham c. 1851
Liverpool 1858-70
Cincinnati c. 1880

I think Raimey is correct that the 'V' has a crown so the gun is pre-1877

Can't find a MGBte either
https://www.hlebooks.com/daubres/li01.htm

bte stands for "boîte," (box)," indicating a mailbox or parcel locker

Hause, just how much >>London Laminated Steel<< did London maker? He sure must have been busy during this period?

Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

https://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/artisans%20identifies%20g/a%20guerette%20mathieu%20gb.htm

Mathieu Guerette / Guerette Mathieu looks to be our culprit or it was his brainchild as he had 2 patents????



Some dates to bound it would be 1853-1877.



Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

London Laminated Steel. Marketing brother. The tubes never saw the British Isles.

Probably made between 1870 - 1877....

So was it destined for the U.S. of A from the get go?


Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

Can you tell us what the stamp of >>R??<< might read?



Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

It was this Inspector's Stamp of >>Crown over V<< that lead the London Proof House to complain and on January 26th, 1877 the Liége Administrative Board voted to replace the Crown w/ a Star/Spangle.

Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

I wonder if this >>R<< is for Repair where the tubeset was sent back for repair before they could pass thru the Liége Proof Facility??



Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

Mathieu Guerette / Guerette Mathieu



Might you pleasure us with a pic of the fore lug, front & rear of it? Plus an in focus image of the centre fo the water-table & possibly the standing breech; the area between the strikers?


Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

Wow! lots of replies! I will try to get some more/better pictures later. Thanks!

once flipped over, the >>R??<< appears to be LCH?

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Here are some more. Not sure if they will help. The lighting is better than when I tried to do it last night.

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Interesting Honeycomb on the sides of the tubes?


Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

Mathieu Julien François Guerette à Liége must have had a patent for a novel lockup?


Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

This is the only damascus shotgun I have ever owned so excuse my ignorance, but what is honeycomb? Thats not a term I have heard before.

Me neither, as I just made it up under artistic license but I just haven't seen holes in the sides like that. But it looks like Bees have been @ work.....


Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

I am @ a loss as to what it denotes....


Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

But that curved fore lug and the screw in it points to some novel lockup design by ole Mathieu Julien François Guerette à Liége.



Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

I assume it is something done to try and tighten up a loose action.

I've seen peening before, but it is typically on the fore & aft lug?


Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

Gotcha. I figured it was somebody trying to tighten it up. There is also a shim made from a tin can sitting between the water table and barrel flats so there was clearly a "backyard gunsmith" frantically trying to tighten it up haha.

On a properly fitted double gun there is a gap between the action flats and the barrel flats, increasing in size closer to the breech.

It's there for a purpose.

Yeah. I am aware there should be a gap. That shim was in there when I bought it, and seeing as I don't see myself firing this thing, I just left it in there. Whoever had it before clearly didn't know what they were doing.

More than likely it was red a healthy diet of 70mm case length cartridges and that made it loose.


Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

Well thanks for all the info! Now I finally got an idea how old it is.