doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Von Lengerke & Detmold (VL&D) / Francotte history

I am asking in order to answer an inquiry in this forum about a recent acquisition of mine, and also to further my own knowledge about this rather little-marked, but charming old sxs double in rather good condition.

I know (having tried to research a bit, and to comb this forum first, before asking immediately) that VL&D were founded in 1882, that their 1890 catalogue (now reprinted by Cornell Pubs.) lists "8 Murray Street" as their NYC street address, and lateron they were on Madison Ave for a longer time, first at 346 and then at 349.
I also believe to remember to remember that their 1906 catalogue already lists the Madison Ave street address.
They may have been before at 318 Broadway, though.

Lastly, an undated catalogue shows a double address of Newark N.J. plus the NYC 8 Murray Street, on top of which cover page which the seller or a previous owner had hand-written a date (?) of "1887" (maybe they just moved over the river, in this bery year?)

Now, would anybody here be able to ascertain *from* when *to* when exactly they resided at "8 Murray Street"? 🤔
That would greatly help my limit the date of my gun, which may be a (possibly Belgian) predecessor to their "Knock About Gun" brand name.

Many thanks for any help !

Carcano

Not much help I'm afraid.
I looked through the VL&D ads in the Sporting Life Archives.
The archives start in 1883 and in July they were at 14 Murray St.
Unfortunately there were no more ads archived until March 1895 when they were at 8 Murray St.
Thereafter there were ads, but they did not list an address, until March 1899 when they were at 318 Broadway.

I have ads for VL&D from 86' listing the 14 Murray address, then 90' & 92' listing the 8 Murray address

1886



1890

Bob Beach here, Retired historian for Griffin and Howe with access to records of VL&D, VL&A, A&F and G&H

According to the biography of "Justus Von Lengerke" written by his great grandson, Justus Von Lengerke III, the dates and location of the VL&D (NYC) store were as follows:

1882 - Von Lengerke & Detmold 14 Murray ST.
1888 - " 8 Murray St.
1897 - " 318 Broadway
1906 - " 349 Fifth Ave.
1909 - " 200 Fifth Ave.
1920 " 414 Madison Ave.
1921 " 349 Madison Ave.
1929 Merged with Abercrombie & Fitch

VL&D did open another store in Newark, NJ in 1885 because business was "good". This store was run by Justus' younger brother, Hermann Von Lengerke.

And of course, Justus' brother Antoine Von Lengerke and his shooting partner Ernst Detmold opened Von Lengerke & Detmold in Chicago; all of which, including G&H, were purchased by A&F in 1929-1930. "Where the blazed trail crosses the Boulevard"

Any further questions, I can be reached directly at rbeach1945@optoline.net

There's nothing quite like information straight from the horse's mouth!

Great to see you post Bob.

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

Thank you Bob. I added that information here, of course with an attribution
https://www.shotgunworld.com/threads/abercrombie-fitch-von-lengerke-detmold-and-francotte.393236/