doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com the bad rap on english guns

many say the classic english sbs's cant handle the stress of a typical competition year held in the states.
ive always been drawn to westley richards shotguns but hesitate because of this. i know WR guns have been used in olympic matches, but did they hold up?
so, what is the main issue with english guns? is it the lock up? the triggers? all the little hand made parts breaking?
help me undo this fear of owning one.....and shooting it a lot.

News to me. 90% of my stuff is either English or Scottish.

I don't have that opinion of English guns, but so many of the ones you see for sale are game guns and not heavy enough for continuous targeting, IMO. Give me a 8 lb.+ waterfowler, stocked properly for targets, and I could be happy with it for lots of clays

IMO once again, the other issue is not that they are necessarily fragile, but when a part DOES break you will spend big bucks having a custom made part fabricated by a master gunsmith, and waiting no telling how long to get it. That's just not an ideal situation to place one's self in when you are depending on a gun for competition.

Typical off the shelf American ammunition is unsuitable for older English double guns. This is amplified when the age of the English double is pre war, or, older. Many old English guns that ended up here had the chambers lengthened to 2 3/4” or, 3”, without another thought, and were used up. Just because an English gun has a 2 3/4” chamber does not mean it has been proofed for 1 1/4oz loads, either.
Old guns, like old dogs in the field, bring their own issues to the game. Expecting an English gun built about the same time as the Titanic to be your ATA gun for a year might be an expensive decision. While you do run into English fowlers intended for geese, ducks and swans, the light game gun configuration is far more common. Intended to be carried more, and shot, some.

For serious competition shooting, there are better choices.

Best,
Ted

bobski, a question, if I might.

Is the object of your concern to break every target possible, or to shoot an English gun at them?

#2.
fit and feel. perfect swing. a classic gun that feels like its not in my hands, acting as an extension of my eye...that doesnt kick because it was made not to.

yet, has the modern variables like ejectors, sst, and a beavertail forearm.

ive been watching this one for a long time. the lump shoe bbls have me hesitating, yet the impressive feature is that the receiver has been bolstered up.

https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...arrel-trap-droplock.cfm?gun_id=103362241

You have painted a picture with some very high expectations, and I don't see the specifications mentioned that can fulfill them for you.

Fit and feel - no stock dimensions are given, not LOP, not DOC, not DAH.
Perfect swing - no weight is provided. And, you certainly can't know the moment of inertia.
You haven't held or shot the gun so you cannot know the feel. Or, at least, you haven't told us that you have.
It doesn't kick because it was made not to - pretty high expectation there considering you don't know the weight of the gun or the stock dimensions.

And, at $22.5 large, it would all be quite a gamble on a sight-unseen gun.

Just a few thoughts of mine, on the thoughts of yours.

How many rounds would you be putting through a gun in a competition year? Presumably they would be fairly light trap loads.

Then bear in mind that the British game gun was designed to shoot many thousands of game specific rounds through it for driven shooting each season.

It was then expected to be returned to its maker for an annual service and to maintain its reliability in the field.

Given those considerations I feel your concern should be how heavily used that WR trap gun is, what its designed for load is and then whether you like it in your hands. And as has been pointed out, finding a gunsmith trained on British game guns seems to be getting trickier and trickier in North America now. Its not so easy back here in England, either!

Tim

WR now directs american owners to Griffin & Howe for service. At least that's where Anthony Tregear sent me when I had a problem with an older droplock, a year or so ago.

What have shooters seen of English guns that have broken because of high volume shooting? What broke? How many? Were they shooting a lot of over proof loads?