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I noticed there is some correct German Proofmark info on the subgauges(which applies to pistols of course) here. It has the 1895 Supplemental table:



https://classictargetpistols.com/index.php/barrel-markings/

Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

The reason I was chasing the 1895 table was that I was trying to guess what kalibre a >>181<< stamp might denote? Axel E. had posted the table years ago, circa 1910/1911 when the German Section started but it appears to have been lost in updates.



Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

The above Proofmark Reference gives dating commenced in 1903 but one can see here it was earlier and might have started back in the late 1890s???










It was this chamber cast & proofmark info where I was trying to determine the kalibre. Early on, I had equated >>181<< w/ the 303 British, but that could easily have been in error or the >>181<< stamp could cover additional kailbres or span several kalibres.

Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

And Wolfgang quickly finds one source of the 1895 Supplemental Proof Table:

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Deutsches_Reichsgesetzblatt_1895_015_232.jpg



I thought the image might be a little more clear?

Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

This shows the difficulty in trying to determine the nominal caliber (name of the cartridge) from proof marks and chamber casts. The proof marks do not, themselves, show the nominal caliber of a rifle, rather they show some of the dimensions of the chamber. These dimensions may be unique to one nominal caliber but are sometimes the same for more than one. An example of the same proof marks used for more than more than one nominal caliber is those for 8x57 I, 8x57IR, 8x57R/360, and 8.25x57R Hagen (AKA 8x57R Express, AKA 8.2x57R-360 Express). The problems with chamber casts are that they do not duplicate the dimensions of the cartridge, but of the chamber. The chamber must be larger than the cartridge, otherwise the cartridge will not chamber. How much larger? That is determined by the maker of the rifle and may vary from .005-.015" depending on the size and age of the cartridge. Chamber reamers are made with a + tolerance and cartridges are made with a - tolerance (again, to ensure any commercial cartridge will chamber in any rifle of the same nominal caliber). Nevertheless, except for rifles made after the 1939 proof law mandated that the nominal caliber be shown on the guns chamber casts and proof marks are usually the only information, we have to identify the nominal caliber of a rifle "in hand". To this information we have to apply previous experience and knowledge. For instance, we know the bore diameter shown by the proof mark is not the groove diameter of the rifling or the bullet diameter of the cartridge. We also know that older, black powder, cartridges usually used bullets smaller than even the bore diameter and depended on obturation to make the bullet fit the barrel (these were often made before proof marks were used). With all these considerations, identification of the correct cartridge is still a matter of judgement and mistakes can be made; but even known mistakes represent additional information for reconsideration of the final identification.
Mike

Good Info there Ford. So, what parent case will Best fit, and fireform, to the chamber?


Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

Raimey,
If you are asking about the 8x48R S&S, my choice would be the 30-30, which I use to form its little sister the 6.5x48 R S&S. The lengths are very close. The 30-30 head size is a good bit smaller than the 8x48R S&S (and the 6.5x48R as well). I haven't had a problem with the smaller head diameter. If it bothers you, you can use 9.3x72R norm. which has head diameter of about .427" vs .422" for 30-30 vs .433" for 8x48R. We both have 30-30 and 9.3x72R, but I don't like to waste 9.3's by trimming that much when I have a "pile" of 30-30's. If you don't mind searching and buying new cases, you might try .303 Savage which is about .433 at the base but is shorter than 30-30. ( I don't know if it is enough shorter that you wouldn't have to trim it. If I also had a pile of them, I would use them but wouldn't buy new ones. BTY, the rims of 30-30 and likely 303 Savage need to be thinned but not likely the 9.3x72R. If the rifle happens to be 8x58R S&S, your choices would be 38-55 (original length [2.125-2.130"], which is a little shorter than 58mm and the rim needs trimming) or 9.3x72R.\
Mike

Sort of Ford, but what parent brass would Best fit the chamber per the given dimensions?? This 1871 Bolt Platform is not mine, but I was just brainstorming as to what I would load to press it into service. Too, the thing that made me start this thread is that I have a Remo kipplauf that was chambered in 8,15X46 1/2R per the stamps but some astute individual used one of your 30-30 reamers and cut the chamber to take trimmed 30-30 cases, I believe the case to be. So what I have is a 30-30 case w/ a 8,15mm bullet in it. I bit of a mess if you didn't do the >>Customization<< yourself.


Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

Raimey,
Which rifle are you asking about? It the 8x48R S&S "1871 Bolt Platform" or the Remo KLB rechambered 8.15x46R? If it is the 8x48R S&S, use shortened 30-30 cases as described above. If it is the Remo, do what I did with a different KLB that was rechambered with a 30-30 reamer and had the neck opened with a straight reamer far enough to chamber an American brand of 32 WCF cartridge that had a heavy crimp and was damaged by shooting it with 32 WCF from a different maker, whose cartridges weren't crimped as heavily and the cases "jammed" into the front of the chamber, building up chamber pressure. I think I showed you the rifle. The way I figured it out was by forming a 30-30 case in a 32-40 die and loading a bulletless fireforming load. The fireformed case showed where to trim the cases to fire 8.15 mm Nominal bullets (sized to groove diameter). A chamber cast might show how much (if any) to shorten 30-30 cases (rims might or might not need thinning). the 8.15 groove diameters vary pretty widely so you should "slug" the barrel to find the bullet diameter you need.
Mike

Yeah, I'll gladly take any & all info but I was referring to the one stamped >>181<< and the one it looks like you think is 8X48R S&S:






Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse