doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Holland Rebirth Project

Hello all and Happy New Year!!

After searching for quite some time to find a suitable site to host pictures,
I have decided to give Flickr a try, still not as simple as the old Photobucket but there’s not much else one can do these days….I know it’s bound to test my patience but I have a few completed projects I was hoping to share…. so let’s see how it goes.

On that note…

A few years ago I had the good fortune to acquire a cased London best by H&H.
Ordered by a member of a prominent Canadian family for duck hunting and completed in 1913, a time when London craftsmanship was at its zenith.
It was easy to tell from its well used condition that this Holland had seen a lot of action, any lesser quality specimen would have surely joined the scrap heap long ago…but that was not the case here.
The 30” Whitworth fluid steel barrels were still in proof, sound and on face, the bores were clean, shiny and without a single imperfection, mechanically it was still in superb condition,
With stout 1-1/4 oz nitro proofs and a heavy frame with side clips, hand detachable locks, third fastener and a crisp (early) Holland single trigger….a true “Royal Hammerless Ejector”
The wood and gun case were a different story…the former, oil soaked and suffering from a few failed repairs, the latter in complete tatters, but it was a Holland Royal non the less and from where I stood not a bad
specimen at that.
Sure, it needed a thorough going over and re-stock but if any one gun deserved it, this was it.

These are a few pictures of the case as I found it….










Because I knew the work would take a long time to complete, the case was sent off fist to be fully restored in the best London fashion.
The Holland on the other hand was put away to join the rest of the worthy but less fortunate ones

I will post a few “ before” pictures of the gun as soon as I get them sorted out…..stay tuned

Really looking forward to this one CJO.

These are a few pictures of the gun as was found, what’s not to love, you can see it exudes quality from all angles, the beautiful Holland Scroll…and that lovely vintage smell that often accompanies these old cased guns, but you can also see the poor state of the wood…it had to go.

Do you have a stock blank picked out? Pictures of the candidate replacement would be nice to see.

That was an amazing gun.
It will be again.

Good to see you posting pics again, CJO. And, a very nice way to start back, too! I hope you will show lots of before and after pics of each stage of restoration of this old warrior.

Would you post some pics of the proof marks, and provide the weight of the gun as is? And, how long are the barrels?

Thanks, SRH

P.S. I'd also love to see the innards of the locks. I'll bet others here would, too.

the good, the bad an duh ug ly...

too bad the original wood cannot be saved...

what a great piece of history. I imagine it was heavy duck loads that did the stock in. It certainly deserves to be restored.

Very much redeemable, good luck and keep us posted.
I too am looking a Holland Royal.

Has the case been finished and returned to you yet? If so pictures of it would be a nice starter for those of us waiting to see the whole finished project.

I’m looking forward to this one, Claudio. Personal bias suggestion: make a long, slim semi-beaver tail forend and a full, capped pistol grip to create a wonderful clays/wildfowler. It would be a real standout configuration. The ubiquitous straight grip/splinter tradition is so yesterday. Make it unique and special!
JR

John wins for worst idea of the year so far....

All your requests are being processed, unfortunately some will be impossible to grant/implement due to time constraints……(The management)


All kidding aside I will try to cover all request…more on the case coming soon

All best

CJ

It took the better part of three years to completed the work on the case, only a few pieces of the original oak frame and hardware were good enough to be reused, most of it went in the trash.

The pristine condition of the barrels combined with the apparently oil-rotted wood work suggests that a previous owner was under the misapprehension that if a little mineral oil is good for a gun then lots of it must be better.

The original trade label and charge card were treated, cleaned and reconditioned giving the case a certain look…the old oak parts and restored hardware also added to this, it appeared new but at the same time it had a look of maturity, like it was 20-30 years old and perfectly looked after.
Truth be told that was the look I was shooting for with the gun itself…no pun intended.
But the case now set a pretty high bar…and kicked the project up a notch , after which things slowed down to a crawl.

All hand stitched to perfection and all new brass screws…exactly timed!!
There are many extra details on the new case that were not there before, like the key keeper, the “Frenched in” oil bottle and snap caps, the embossed accents and also a brand new set of red full length velvet barrel liners!!

Ive seen that case in person, perfection is all I can say

Allow me to show my lack of understanding her: barrel liners?? Do I understand that these full length liners are actually that? For inserting into the barrels?? New item for me. Did I guess / assume correctly. Beautiful case by the way.

I'll echo Mr Dawe. I think it's hard for the photos to convey just how nice that case is. It radiates quality when you see it in person.

Sorry, I believe bore protectors is the correct name for them, they are full length rods covered with fine cloth that fit the bores snuggly to try and keep moisture out…not sure if they work but judging from the condition of the bores I think they do.

I have previously seen them on occasion and they are usually dirty and oil soaked…these were re-covered in red.

That was my assumption but I just wanted to be sure. I had never seen these before. Are they impregnated with silicon or anything like that?

Very nice outcome with case. Hope the gun has same level of care and successful outcome. Regards,Mr W Martin

I’m not quite sure,but they wouldn’t have used silicone back then, I think the in and out of the oiled bores over the years would have contributed or perhaps they were soaked with Rangoon oil or something similar…I just don’t know

Thank you sir, I tried very hard to meet the level of workmanship on the case…I hope I don’t dissapoint

All best

I don’t believe the previous owner of the gun ever cleaned or oiled the piece himself….but maybe the heavy hand belonged to his butler

Searching for the correct blank was a real chore, I had a few fancy blanks but felt they were a bit out of place on a gun like this.
The advice from a knowledgeable source was to take the gun’s vintage into consideration, “nothing too overpowering”
A nice older French blank would have been just great, needed to be stable, have the correct grain structure and flow have good density and take well to the chisel…but where to find such a piece?
Then I remembered someone mentioned having picked up such a blank,
So all I needed to do was to coax it out of his stash.

After a couple of phone calls and a little horse trading James came through…he even delivered it.





I doesn’t look like much but It was a real nice blank... “ from Purdy’s 1965”was written on it, almost as old as me…. so, old and stable. Not sure of its origin maybe James can tell us how he came by it

PS:not sure I’m that stable these days

Happy to add to the story Claudio.

I used to maintain a correspondence with an old time member here. Robert Chambers. I found him to be extremely knowledgeable about certain areas of the vintage gun world but polarizing and not the right temperament to thrive in a forum like this. I happened to be conversing with him in the summer of 2020 and he mentioned he would like to sell a few blanks he had. His eyesight was failing and the time for him to utilize some nice blanks was over.

Sight unseen I bought one of them. I should have bought all of them. He told me that he had had the blank for at least 25 years and that the person he acquired it from had shown him a receipt from Purdey’s for the blank dated in the mid 1960s. It’s all hearsay at this point but that’s the story I got.

The blank arrived and I thought it was lovely but understated. I had recently picked up some other, more “in your face” blanks and so this one was just sitting waiting for the right project.

Claudio called me one day as he knew I had acquired a few blanks. Told me about the project and asked if any of them might make sense. I told him about this blank and he was interested. Now it’s always both entertaining and informative to spend time in Claudio’s workshop so it didn’t take much to get me in my car and making the drive over to his shop.

I didn’t see it again until the gun was finished and my jaw dropped. I had seriously underestimated this blank. It has depth to it like I have never seen before. I feel,like I can see into it.

And it doesn’t hurt that I did Claudio “a solid”. Pretty sure that will work out for me one day. 🤣

So, to set matters right, the gun is finished already and this is just a historical accounting thread?
JR

Pretty hard to make an entertaining thread in real time when the process can take years, John. I’m sure you understand that.

Sooooo, can we see pictures of the gun?????

That is one beautiful blank of stock wood!

James, I have found that there are ways to finish gunstock wood that creates the 3D illusion of looking like you can see into the wood, a serious depth. Amazingly sometimes, even on plain, straight grained walnut. I have one that even has a "holographic" effect. As you move it around certain areas of the grain seems to move while other areas don't. Amazingly beautiful.

I do, but after a bit I began to wonder...
JR

John…I guess you know this means I won’t be able to do your beavertail/pistol grip configuration after all, but I think you won’t be too disappointed with the outcome, more pics coming.

Cheers!

Well since you guys look a bit impatient and are not too interested in the fine details of the stocking job I’ll cut to the chase

The locks on this gun have to come off that means anyone can see the inletting and that meant it had to be perfect..as DT said jokingly…”make sure your chisels are sharp, you don’t want it look like the inside was chewed by a rat”

So I stropped chisels every day just to make sure, but the wood helped as it was a delight to work with

The blank you chose is about perfect for this gun. Fiddleback grain in Juglans Regia is not as common as it is in black walnut, and rarely that intense. It would be awfully hard to part with a blank like that

I, for one, am very interested in as many fine details of this stocking job as you are willing to share. I'm sure there are others who feel the same.

Hi, CJO.

Beautiful work. Very nice. Did you replace all the leather on the case? I'm guessing yes.

Thanks for sharing.

OWD

Yes Gregg, was re-covered in new English Bridle leather, should be good for another lifetime

All best,

CJ

Well that blank was really nice on first appearance and I knew it would be even better once the stock curvature exposed more of the grain and the finish was applied…only thing was there was an area around the top right horn that was a bit cross grained and I had to be careful heading up the stock, after that it was smooth sailing

After James left I scraped the left side of the bank and wet it to see what I had bargained for….I was quite happy to say the least

I hope the stock will match the forend , or will another forend be made to match ?

I'll just say I'm happy with the trade. That blank should be on a London Best sidelock. And now it is. And what I'll get from Claudio will be more suited to my next project.

Anybody who thinks that stock blank does not have it all for that grade of gun or any gun for that matter I feel for. Quatersawn with grain, flow and figure. Hope you got a matching fore end piece. Beautiful.

There was no reason to replace the forend Daryl,it was in good shape save the the dark appearance once stripped it actually showed the same fiddleback grain of the stock…I guess I got lucky there

While I agree that stock needed nothing added, I am wondering if you put a little alkanet into it. I think I might. But it would be beautiful without as well. I can wait to find out.

As exquisite as I'm sure the final pictures will show the gun to be, this one says it all for me...

Claudio, thanks for your post and great that your forend was reusable. I don't want to take away from your theme, but I went through the same process a few decades ago. The case was done by a friend who did the best work and the restock was done in England for this Holland Royal two barrel set. That was when stocking was more affordable.

Thank you Rob, but there was still a bit more work to be done there, the two small rear lock springs still needed to be let in…and that was a tricky chore

If you appreciate details I can share some single trigger stuff.
This particular Holland has the early single trigger
Not sure how this design falls within the chronology of the Holland single trigger but I can tell you the design leaves the stock at the head a bit too compromised for my liking, that’s because of the amount of wood that needs to be removed to make room for that linkage to toggle back and forth.

One good way to picture it would be like looking at an LC Smith ( and let me be clear that I’m not making any comparisons) where way too much wood needs to be removed to make room for that top lever spindle where good contact is needed the most.

Maybe that’s why the stock broke…who knows



Sorry for the separate pictures, that is all I have.

The linkage sits within a groove that can be seen at the front of the gold plated slide (pictured below) the linkage works directly off the safety bar as the automatic safety goes on the trigger resets under the right sear (non selective single trigger) when the trigger is pulled the right sear lifts out of the way allowing the the linkage to pull the slide forward and arm the left side…quite clever and very smooth if it’s in good working order



Now see the single trigger on a new Holland, this is a 12 Bore DeLuxe I worked on 20 years ago…gun was from the 90’s totally the same principle but the linkage toggles from a spot further back behind the top lever screw, allowing the head of the stock to remain solid.

It’s quite the improvement, I hope I have described it properly….

Nice gun and case Daryl. But I have to ask - What's in the shoe polish can??

I am going to guess solvent, treated patches.

Perry, I think the friend who rebuilt the case used the polish to “minimize’ a few scratches on the exterior leather. In general, the original leather condition was quite good. A friend traded the case to me for a two gun case I had that was of similar condition and quality.

humbling...

The trigger guard is next, once that inletting is complete, then rough shaping can begin, btw, I find Its always better practice to make a new trigger guard pin (screw) if possible

How did that streak of odd-looking grain in the middle photo that has some earmarks of semi-sapwood turn out after the finish was applied, Claudio? Looks pretty distinct.
JR

Don’t let your imagination get away on you…no sap wood anywhere on that blank

Some things are better if they are just left to unfold in the fullness of time.

I can respect this sentiment about reserving a really special stock blank for an appropriate gun. I have an old exhibition grade blank of Circassian Walnut that would be best suited on something like a Best Quality heavy recoiling double rifle, or perhaps something like a heavy Lefever Optimus or Parker A-1 Special. It is highly figured marble cake with great layout in the head and wrist, plenty large enough to get a splinter forend blank, and has very tiny pores and is so dense you can't make a mark with a thumbnail. I have yet to find such a gun in need of restocking, and I suppose it could end up in my estate when I croak. I found it years ago for a ridiculously low price, at a small local gunshow, buried under a pile of old GunList and Shotgun News. I have shown it, and similar blanks on gunstock sites like Luxus Walnut, to my kids, and told them that if I die, they should not mistake it for some random short piece of lumber. They were shocked at how expensive a piece of walnut can be.

Of course, anyone who pays the price has the right to put such a blank on a plain-Jane Savage 311 or Crescent field grade. They can also wear expensive handmade Italian wingtip dress shoes with bib overalls and a camo hat. I just think that's nuts.

The diamond grip and drop points emerge….








A little water makes the colour pop…which gets the heart going momentarily

Claudio, do you "pencil on" the drop points and the line of the diamond grip sides, at some point in the stock shaping, and then work to those marks?

Absolutely fabulous work.

I suspicioned it was the camera angle, Claudio, but I couldn’t resist asking😉
JR

Yes I do…luckily I had another Holland stock here( pictured below) the original had been crudely sanded and refinished so It was useless from a reference standpoint








Don’t ask me where the old stock came from but I liked the lines and the shape of the grip so I based the overall look of my stock on it…I do however like to keep my lines as sharp as possible through the process

So , going back to your question on penciling in the shapes…I only do it to have a rough idea of the shape to follow, the rest is all in the eyes.
Once you look at this stuff long enough you can spot things, something that looked ok yesterday looks odd today…I try to make sure all curves flow into each other seamlessly and shapes and proportions are pleasing to the eye.

Here it is almost perfect….




With the shaping done, the finishing can begin

Thank you, Claudio.

I remember the forend of my Lindner Daly nagging at you when we were doing that thread 5 years ago. You had it propped up on your bench for a few days until you saw what you needed to see.

Once I start applying the finish on the stock there is plenty of time between coats to start dealing with the fore end, it was dark and oil soaked but otherwise sound, this was important to me because its always good to keep a part of the old wood in service, sort of like keeping the soul of the gun intact. Also, that fore end is a real pain to make.




After a few coats of finish…it perfectly matches the stock, fiddleback and all.

Beautiful, Claudio. That wood is so right-on in color and grain. And the forend really shows how a beautifully done concave mullered border frames and sets off a checkering pattern. Did you freshen up the checkering?
JR

Absolutely stunning! Thank you.

Checkered butt I assume, nice to see new wood without a pad... Abe Chaber suggested that when he restocked my Warillow.

You need another project? I have a Boss RA that needs a new stock

Get in line. lol.

No, that was still the original checkering on the picture.

PAULUNC:

Have you talked to the guy in Maine who trained with David Trevallion?

I know he has stocked at least one Boss RA.

OWD

Looks incredible Claudio!

OWD, who might that be? I have talked to Dan Morgan.

Wow. Amazingly sharp points after all this time. Wear on checkering diamonds is one sure indicator of usage. Obviously little used gun.
JR

Might be related to the single trigger.

Or, not.

Best,
Ted

Just sent you a pm

At a chosen point in the wood refinishing process the checkering gets re cut…Chris Dawe takes care of that for me these days…and does a wonderful job every time.
Once the wood is back from checkering there are still quite a few things left to do, along with the inspection of every individual part, all the pins/screws need to be dressed down and engraved, as well as the blacking of the barrels and furniture









The barrel face is dressed/jewelled in the original fashion as judged from the partial pre existing vertical lines



Then final assembly begins…

These are the results

I will post a few natural light pictures as well…

What a great thread, thank you for taking the time to show us, Claudio.

And huge acknowledgement of your craftsmanship and skill.

Well done.

Tim