doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Proofmark puzzle

An equation for proof pressure per the Oktober 30th, 1897 Belgian Decree/May 10th, 1898 note the Proof Charges were to attain a pressure of 80% over the maximum service pressure and the resulting mark was the Rampant Lion over the Max load stamp.

Belgian Decree of November 18th, 1903 with the >>Unique<< Powder for the 4th proof was not to exceed 875 kg/cm^2 or 13k lbs/in^2.

The Pressure for the 5th Proof Effort was not to exceed 750 kg/cm^2 or 11k lbs/in^2.


Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

This stuff is highly volatile and changes with the wind due to the fact the powder technology as well as the steel technology was doing the same. Proof Law was obsolete when enforced and was chasing the wind of Powder & Steel.


Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

A little tid-bit more of info from another source gives that early semi-smokeless powders achieved a vast array of pressures between 6k to 10k PSI. So it was the goal of the Oktober 30th, 1897 Belgian Decree to adopt a powder to achieve a proof pressure of 80% over the max service pressure but that value must exceed 8.8k PSI.

Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

For the 4th & 5th Proof Efforts, max pressure in 16 bore was 11k PSI and 13k PSI for sub gauges.

Rifles are mentioned but literally zero proof pressures.

Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

Thanks for the effort brother.
BTW that 13,000 psi by modern transducers would be about 14,500 psi - which is what U.S. doublegun makers used.

You had me confused on all the "semi-smokeless" verbiage until I found that's what our superiors on the Continent and Great Britain referred to what we American deplorables called "smokeless"

Was "Unique" the name of the Belgian Proof House powder? I couldn't find the powder used after Nitro proof powder was standardized c. 1898.

Um, yes the Europeans referred to >>Semi Smokeless<< as the status quo until Nitro took over.


Yes, >>Unique<< was the powder and another source doesn't name it but gives that it was NOT commercially available and that it was equal to or superior to any powders available to the average sportsman. What the Belgian Proof Masters were concerned with was that they needed to cover all possible bases as the end user, the Hunter, may use something all together different that sued in the Proof Effort. And stouter as well. The had gotten upside down and overwhelmed with the vast choice of powders to the Sportsman.

Indeed, >>Unique<< was the Official Name in late 1903.

Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

Another interesting tid-bit regarding Pin-Fire Scatterguns was that they could NOT be proved w/ Semi-Smokeless Powder nor could the any Semi-Smokeless stamps be applied. Now there was a caveat that under petition that the Spezial Department of Trial could strength test a Pin-Fire Scattergun and on demand, a letter could be issued that the platform was tested. A Proof Certificate was NOT acquired.



Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

After 1924, one sees the term >>Copper Crusher<< used in the Proof Rules so I am not sure exactly how the previous pressures were measured?

Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

Ah, I did find the term >>Poudre Vive Unique<< in a reference to the 1924 Rules..... So indeed, the Smokeless Powder @ 1924 was named >>Unique<<. A Maker could request a 2nd Nitro Powder Proof from a choice of available powders but the pressure was not to exceed the Unique Powder Effort.


Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

After the platform was tested with the powder >>Unique<< and the Rampant Lion over PV(Poudre Vive) was applied, what was the 5th test could be performed with your powder of choice but for a 16 bore the powder had to produce a max pressure of 11k PSI and the sub gauges had to achieve a max pressure of 13k PSI. Then the stamp of the Rampant Lion over the >>Powder of Choice<< was applied.

Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse