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I just picked up this W. Richards shotgun. I know it's not a Westley Richards. According to the Birmingham proof marks it was made between 1896 and 1904. I wanted it because of the nice wood. It still has an unbroken horn buttplate and mint bores. Let me know if the pictures dont load. I haven't posted here in a while.

https://imgur.com/a/AfEfYLk

Fixed it for ‘ya:


https://postimg.cc/gallery/nMn5LzY


Welcome back.

The English old gun guys will know more, but, it looks like it was bored as a 13 gauge and proofed for 1 1/4oz of shot, something I don’t recall seeing on an old English gun. The marks also tell you it is choked, but, not how much.

‘Whatchs you going to use it for?

Best,
Ted

Dang. They don’t want to open individually.

Oh well.

Best,
Ted

I may shoot some 2 1/2" shells though it once in a while. I also have a Sjögren shotgun that needs them. I mostly just bought it for the wood figure and it was only $700 which I thought was reasonable. Old Western Scrounger has been importing some odd doubles.

https://www.hallowellco.com/british_proof%20marks%20-%20syntax%20by%20date.htm

This was where I was getting my proof marks. The 13/1 mark may place it at 1896. This is just my guess.

13/1 was used until 1954.

I don’t see 13/1. I see 13. The lack of chambers length makes me think 1904-1925 rules of proof.

Best,
Ted

I have a 16ga Damascus hammer gun marked W. Richards. Mine is clearly Belgian. Wonder if some were made in Belgium, proofed in England?

I grew up with a W Richards 12 bore double in the house. It was not a shootable gun, and was of rather poor quality and in very poor condition. Made a fine wall hanger, and nothing more. I remember a story I was told that W. Richards was a janitor at a factory in Belgium that gave the company that made it the right to stamp it as such, but they were certainly playing on the Westley Richard name and reputation in selling them to rubes in America.

Exactly who told me that story, I do not recall. I do not think it was Dad. I have no recollection of the proofs. I was in the single digits back then, and all guns were fascinating, especially if they were old and worn.

W. Richards, Preston and Liverpool, is an English manufacturer. There were Belgian manufacturers that tried to capitalize on the name, but, this isn’t one of them. It was proofed in England.

Clearly, this one is English.

Best,
Ted

Perhaps, Westley's cousin William. The W. Richards of Belgium is another Richards.

The founder of Westley Richards, was actually named William Westley Richards.

https://www.vintageguns.co.uk/magazine/westley-richards-a-journey-

Best,
Ted

Ted, I've had that happen to me a couple times recently. I tried several times and even tried a few different photo hosting sites with the same result of not having the image show when I previewed the post. Everything looked normal with the image code, but it just wouldn't display.

But then one site gave me an error message informing me that their system did not support that particular image type or format or something. I wish I had made note of the exact wording. I'm not sure why it happened, but my quick solution was to take a screenshot of the image, and then download it to my PC. I was then able to upload the newly downloaded image to the hosting site, and copy and paste here as usual.

If Dave had image hosting here and this little problem happened to the Nutty Professor, it would give him something else to cry about.

W. Richards at Fishergate was William
https://www.westleyrichards.com/us/theexplora/w-richards-is-not-westley-richards/

https://doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=490072

The shot OZ. MAX was used 1896-1904

When I was a young man, and did not know what I did not know, I assumed the Liverpool gunmakers, W. Richards and Williams and Powell were trading to take advantage of the well known Birmingham gunmakers with similar names.

I now know that both the Liverpool firms date back to 1780, pre-dating Westley Richards founded 1812 and William Powell founded 1802.

Your gun with the Preston address (the Preston and Liverpool branches of W. Richards were slightly out of step in their number allocation)bdates to 1900.

I have a very similar 12 bore BLNE from the Liverpool branch dated to 1898 (Nigel Brown , British Gunmakers Vol. 2 has the list).

Mine has Damascus Barrels identified by Drew Hause as English 2-stripe.

It is a sad comment on the market in the U.K. for boxlock non-ejectors that after a previous owner had had mine re-Nitro proved, the rib address re-cut and the barrels nicely re-browned the hammer price when I bought it at auction was no more than a tenth of what he must have spent to have all that work down.

The 1 1/4 oz.1900 Proof Marks on Vagabond’s W. Richards, presumably indicating 2 3/4” chambers, encouraged me to get mine out to inspect the Proof Marks.

The current marks show it is Proofed with 65 mm chambers at 850 BAR and there is a 1998 Birmingham viewer’s date stamp.

Much of the earlier marks have been lost in re-jointing, but there are 2 1/2” marks that must be post 1925.

I cannot identify any sign of the original 1898 Proof Marks, but it has clearly been proved at least 3 times.

My gun with 30” Damascus barrels now weighs about 6 lb. 12 oz (on cheap kitchen scales). I am curious to know what Vagabond’s weighs, perhaps 7 1/2 pounds to match 1 1/4 oz.0f shot?

I just weighed it and it came in at 6 lbs 10 Oz. 29 1/2" barrels.