doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion Classic & Custom Single Barreled Sporting Rifles @ doublegunshop.com WTB-1886 33 WCF

As indicated;WTB an 1886 in 33WCF preferably with half mag SGB, and good bore...and even better price.
I have ammunition and dies, along with bullets by Hornady and Hawk.
(Brass is slightly easier to form with 40-65 WCF Starline or other 45-70 brass.)

Even a worn version might be acceptable. Check your rifle racks. Might even consider an under-appreciated Marlin in this caliber. Ben Lilly carried an 1886 in both Mexico and AZ=NM successfully while hound hunting for grizzlies.

Those are beautiful rifles. Good luck finding one. I love reading the Ben Lilly adventures.

Would you consider an 1895 Marlin? One of the original 5000 (square bolt)? It would broaden your search slightly and may offer some advantages.

I bought one - very clapped out and Bubbaed in .33 Win, half mag, though none of that may have been original. Mine is now a .45-70.

There is one Holts main sale later this month (Lot 1110, Estimate £700to £900),but you will have to factor in the costs of importing it from the UK.

I am very pleased with mine, which is a solid frame half-tube with a shotgun butt.

It shoots well with a variety of bullets, jacketed snd cast, and is easy to feed with .45-70 brass using a friend’s .40-65 dies for the intermediate forming stage.

I shot a fallow doe with it, possibly the only one shot with a .33 WCF in this country during this century ( and I suspect not many shot with one over here in the 20th century either).

It took me about 13 years from buying the rifle to track down a box of factory ammunition on this side of the pond.

There is a long article on Ben Lilly, a famous American hound hunter in NM-AZ in the 2023 back issue of the Winchester Collector. Lilly
not only was a famous lion hunter for ranchers and the old US PARC program, he shot grizzlies in Mexico and Arizona with his 1886 Winchester in 33 WCF. He also shot various white tails and mule deer with his 33 WCF as subsistence required. I am somewhat familiar with Lilly and the rifles he used as I am the article's author and a member of the Winchester Collectors Association.

I have four original boxes of 33 WCF ammunition, but do not use the cartridges due to age of the boxes and the almost guaranteed presence of mercuric primers
as used during the early part of the 20th Century. I own 3 of these 1886 33 WCF rifles along with another 1886 nickle steel rifle in 45-70 Govt calibre.

The cartridges in 33 WCF can be made from 40-65 or 45-70 brass, then use of Hornady or Hawk FP bullets. There is loading data available from Ideal and Hornady
Reloading handbooks. The condition of the early nickle steel 1886 rifle bores is dependent on the amount of use and bore cleaning methods. Oil and regular solvent was not sufficient.
Moose milk or bore cleaner with some water present was necessary to insure mercuric primer residue or salts were dissolved and removed entirely from bore and chamber.

Some nice Winchester rifles come out of the UK, I brought a really honest one in last year for a client that he purchased from Gavin Gardiner in the exact caliber and configuration that you are looking for. I never understood why so many seem to pop up overseas but they do.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

I bought this rifle in 2011 and have been feeding it successfully with .45-70 brass necked down firstly in a friends .40-65 die and then in a Lee .33 WCF die. I anneal after each stage.

I have finally found a box of original factory ammunition pictured here. The box is Remington c.1949 from the date code and 16 rounds appear to be original to it.

Normally I am not pleased to find I have bought a mixed box, but in this case the 4 alien rounds (all nickel jacketed FNSP) are of some interest.

The 3 Winchester rounds have a 2 piece primer cup clearly designed to avoid the risk of accidental magazine detonations.

The round at bottom left, Remington U.M.C. with a U stamped on the primer has a slightly stepped head.

The above post was from my thread on .33 Winchester primers earlier this year.

I was hoping that the images would copy over (Imgur having blocked the UK I can no longer upload them afresh).

The protected primers, according to a c.1912 Winchester catalogue, are Winchester 5 1/2.

My rifle has @ good bore (I had a chance to inspect it before bidding).

I chronographed 3 rounds of the Remington Kleanbore. Despite being about 75 years old they performed well and all shot to the same elevation at 100 yards.

Another bullet option which was not available for reloading during the early 1900s for the 33 WCF
is the 210 gr Nosler .338 Partition bullet. For larger game like elk, moose or bear-this bullet is accurate and ideal
due to its partitioned tough construction. By carefully removing the lead tip, bullet weight is reduced to about
205 grains insuring stability in 24 inch Winchester barrels.(My method of using the 205 gr Noslers is one round in the chamber followed by one last in the magazine-between first and last are Hawks or Hornady bullets. Quite effective for anything in North America, almost as effective as the Model 71 in .348 WCF, of which I also use,)
I have utilized various powders successfully including H-4198, IMR 4064 and IMR 4895. Each older 1886 is a law unto itself as to reloaded cartridge accuracy. Chronographed 200 gr handloads reach 2150 fps velocity w/o signs of undue pressure. That is sufficient for 100 yr old + rifles.
An older 1977 article from the Jan/Feb issue of Handloader magazine recommended heavier charges of H-4831; the author was rewarded with very accurate results utilizing
Hornady and CCB/Barnes 200 gr FP bullets. I have a supply of the discontinued Hornady 200 gr FP bullets left, along with some excellent Hawk 180-200 gr bullets.
My CH 33 WCF dies do an excellent job of loading and resizing 40-65 WCF brass. Annealing is an excellent practice to insure longer case life. (The Lee Factory crimp die is highly recommended.)

My rifles include a FM version with Lyman 21 receiver sight; a Deluxe checked stock model with 2/3 magazine, and a pristine half-magazine 86 with most excellent bore.
All have shotgun buttstocks excepting the full magazine 86 rifle with crescent buttplate.
Always looking to rescue another 1886.

There's a takedown 1886 Winchester in .33WCF listed at Guns International for $2199 says it's at Hamburg Cabelas wherever that is? Lots of other 1886's in .33 also at GI if you look there. Here's a link to the takedown. Seems like a decent price to me.

https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...inchester-86-33-wcf.cfm?gun_id=103348554

When I bought mine, I knew I was going to have to hand load for it, but consoled myself that Incould use the excellent 200gr Hornady flat point bullets.

I then found that they had been discontinued, and Steve Hornady,who was at the Game Fair, told me their was no hope of them being re-introduced.

I ordered some 200gr Flextip, but they never arrived. Perhaps that was fortunate as I have since heard that they tend to stick under the magazine follower in 1886 rifles.

I asked a friend who was going to Australia to try to buy some 200gr Woodleigh flat points. He couldn’t find any but did find an old box of Hornady flats points. Result!

A friend with a lathe has flat pointed a supply of 210gr Partition, and I recently acquired an NEI custom gang mould for FP GC 220gr bullets.

All I need now is a suitable non-toxic bullet for when our lead ban on live quarry comes in. I assume casting bismuth bullets would be a non-starter?

One possibility is to obtain some Barnes .338 solids or brass-only bullets and then have your lathe-owning friend
custom cut and flatten them to around 195-205 grain projectiles.
Hence, an answer.

Horrors! The British Isles banning lead or lead shot. Next they will pick up the lead ban on water fowl as in the US.
That means tungsten, bismuth or some other bloody non-lead concoction.
Do not forget Hawk Bullets in NJ.
They might consider a limited run of 338 non-lead FP bullets.

We have had a lead ban for waterfowl/wetlands for many years. What we now face, effective in about 3 years, is a total ban on the sale and use of lead shot.

For hunting live quarry bullets of .243 and above will have to be totally lead free .

We have been fortunate in that it has been accepted that there are no viable lead substitutes for lead in air rifle pellets,.22 rim-fire snd sub-.240 rifles.

If you gentlemen have not done so it would behoove you to search out a copy of the huge tome "The Winchester Lever Legacy" by Snooky Williamson, a soybean farmer from Mississippi, AIR.

He collected and shot every model of Winchester lever guns in every caliber available, hand loading the rounds and testing them for accuracy, having fired in excess of 750,000 rounds over the course of the research for this excellent book. Load data and targets are included in the book.

I read through it last year and am still amazed at the amount of data contained in it.

Williamson was very "high" in his opinion of the '86.

https://www.amazon.com/Winchester-lever-legacy-Clyde-Williamson/dp/0962026719

Thanks Stan,

Whilst I am trying to reduce my collection of gun reference books ( many of which I don’t open from year to year) I will try to find a copy of that one on this side of the pond.

I am slightly familiar with it as about 9 years ago a very kind gentleman, Micharl F. Carrick from Oregon, air mailed me a bundle of info on loading the .33 WCF including a copy of the most informative chapter from that book.

I read the data again on the 33 WCF just this evening in the book, Parabola.

AIR, the best load he found for his shot a 1 5/8" group at 50 yds., with the original iron sights, of course. I seem to recall it was pushing a 205 gr. Nosler bullet.

It is a rifle and calibre that groups remarkably well for a lever action.

I have a target that I shot with a variety of cast and jacketed bullets and all had more or less the same mean point of impact.

IIn the narrative on the calibre he shows that the cartridge “punches well above its weight” even with what I believe is called a Texas heart shot.

Stan;
I have a copy of Snook Williamson's book and he did a great deal of work, with George Madis looking on. It is generally conceded
that he did push his handloads a bit higher than normal.
While it might be possible to venture into .348 WCF territory with 200 gr jacketed 33 WCF handloads, it is not a wise practice for our older
1886 rifles. I just handload for accuracy and it is rewarding when hunting in the Rockies for deer and bear, or even possibly a disoriented bull elk in the rut.

Ben Lilly is credited with killing at least 3 grizzlies in Mexico, Arizona, and New Mexico with his 1886 Winchester in 33 WCF. The bear that almost got Lilly in ambush
was killed on the Blue near Hannagan Meadow in NE Arizona, above the Mogollon Rim. This occurred in about 1913 while he was hunting alone, except for his hounds.
Lilly's 33 WCF full magazine 1886 is still thought to be somewhere in New Mexico.

Mantons of Calcutta imported .33 Winchester 1886 rifles into India between the Wars.

It is possibly how mine made it is way to the U.K. as it was not British Proved until 2011 ( had it been a direct import it would have been submitted to Proof in 1903 or soon after).

Rifles that shoot different weight bullets to the same point of impact are scarcer than hen's teeth. I have only encountered one in my lifetime that would, and I still own it. It is a Ruger #1V chambered for 7mm Rem. Mag. I have shot bullet weights from 115 grs. to 145 grs. in it and they need no scope adjustment nor Kentucky windage to be accurate to POA. I cannot understand or explain the phenomenon but, it's pretty cool to see.

I only have one that will do it to same POA/POI- an early 50s Pre-64 Model 70 in 375 Holland. The other close second is a Husqvarna Mauser in 9.3 X 62. Comforting in places like Alaska or Africa, where one may have to use what one can dig up or scrounge if the airline misplaces a valued bag.
Still owe you Stan for those Boss shells that went into my Fox XE and Parker VHE 3 in ...excellent for the wily Eastern wild turkey bearded swamp denizens.

There is no debt that I am aware of, my friend.

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