doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Newby SxS Double Lover

Greetings from South Florida

I am new here and here’s a little about why I am here. I grew up shooting rifles and competing in USPSA and IDPA, but enjoyed small game hunting with an old over under 12ga. Ten+ ago I gave the old O/U to my brother, and have gone without until I had the itch to find a classic SxS.

Jumping in with more money than brains, I bought 3 old 12 ga.

Last year I got my First, an AyA Yeoman (393140) which is simple and in pretty good condition, however someone sanded off the color case finish. From searching on here, I think it’s from the 70s.

Second is an old J P Sauer & Sohn, Suhl Habicht (259474). It’s a bit rough, nickel plated, dented wood, but nice barrels and bores. 65mm I believe and possibly from 1938. May have been a waste of money, does anyone think it’s restoration worthy? I got it pretty cheap.

Third, I recently got a Luigi Franchi Condor. I know it’s a 1952 because it came in its original case with the original receipt, proofing sheets, certificates, etc in the little envelope from new; and a sort of paper catalog of all the different models available from Franchi, I’m guessing 1952. The gun is In beautiful condition, nice hand engraving and has removable chokes. From my research, it’s a nice ‘entry level’ higher end gun.

I’m going to bring them to South Florida Shooting Club which is 15 minutes away, and have them evaluated.

What do you guys suggest for shells?
From what I’ve read, nothing more than 1oz. and 1300fps. but shouldn’t the Yeoman be able to shoot most 2 3/4” shells since it’s ‘newer’? I would use this gun for hunting and clay sports, and the Franchi for birds and clays.

Thanks for reading and I am hoping to learn and share more. I will try to share pictures.

A lot of us shoot shells in the 1125 to 1175 fps range. Birds and clays won't know the difference.

Welcome to the illness, eh . . . I mean "club". As mentioned, you give up nothing in effectiveness by staying in the 1150 - 1165 fps range. And, it's so much easier on the gun's wood (and your shoulder), primarily at the stock head.

With the shorter chambered Sauer I'd either make an attempt to get ahold of some 2 1/2" lower pressure loads or get some B & P Comp One loads. They are 2 3/4" but are much lower pressure than most over the counter stuff. Shouldn't be any problem for it to digest if it's tight and on face.

B&P Comp 1 at 1160 FPS. They are soft shooting and clean

As Stanton said, welcome to the "club"! You'll find lots of knowledge and information here, enjoy the ride!
Karl

some advise re value and durability...

guns valued at under $500 should be avoided...

guns valued over 500 to a 1000 are often best buys...

the sweet spot seems to be 1000 to 1500...

everything good for reasonable money...

gotta be a really good reason to pay over 1500 for a field grade shotgun...

of the three guns you describe, the sauer sounds like the best bang for the buck...

also, gunsmith usually can safely open Sauer chambers to 2 3/4"...but still keep loads to under 1200 psi...

and b&p comp one are wonderful loads for old and new guns...

Thank you guys, B&P Comp 1 is the census winner for sure!
I will report back after I take them to the “doctor” to get their physicals… The JP Sauer had a rib repair, but yes, I love old German stuff… Hell, I have 3 old Mercedes Diesels.

I liked the first part of Ed's advice but pretty sure I don't go along with lengthening the chambers.

back, whys dat?

Why? Because it's a waste of money, "plus shipping" two ways. You think it's 2 1/2", and the gunsmith will confirm that, whether it's 2 1/2 or not, before sending the bill.

bore, ah axed back, not youse...

an why must you be so negative?

anyways Doug, have fun with your new hobby...

Hypocrisy is thy name.

Because removing metal is irreversible. Because it's unnecessary. Because there is a long history of poorly done chamber lengthening, saved from disaster only by the excessive caution exhibited by American gun makers on the dimensions of their barrels. Because shooting 2 1/2" for hunting isn't that difficult or expensive. Because I have seen too many classic vintage guns ruined by shade tree and other unqualified smiths who mess with guns without understanding what they are doing. A whole lot of "fix today's problem" without ever getting to the root of the problem. Fast forward decades and it's another gun that is beyond salvation.

well back, the first thing you say here is true. Removing metal is irreversible...

but the rest of what you say here is...well untrue...

I base my opinions on what I have seen over the past forty years or so, re-homing thousands of doubleguns...

what Is your claim to fame?

Interesting Ed.

Please be specific. Tell me what I said that is untrue.

My claim to fame is that there is no short term profit motive for me when I am looking at guns. My claim to fame is I have seen numerous examples of guns "restored" by your old go to gunsmith Ed Lander, that were effectively ruined by buffing, by terrible CCH using a blow torch and I have listened to your bullshit defense of those examples.

My claim to fame is that when I actually go to resolve a old gun's issues, I do something like this:

https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=569690

I don't put lipstick on a pig and send it down the road.

I simply voiced a difference in opinion, after voicing support for part of your post. Who is getting negative. You call out my observed opinion, where I made no reference to you, as untrue? You haven't a leg to stand on so best be quiet.

Bad, bad advice regarding chamber lengthening and 1200 psi. 1200 psi isn't enough pressure to barely open the crimp and would be perfect to roll shot out of the end of the muzzle. Maybe you meant fps, but fps generally isn't related to pressure (psi), but man alive, 1200 psi is a burp and a dribble...

gls, obviously fps, of course...

do you have anything else to contribute here beyond highlighting obvious clerical errors...

well back, so now it's about ed lander again...

you make foolish broad all encompassing statements here...

and then you pick a lesser broad subject to defend your foolishness comparisons...

responding to your dribble is a waste of time...

PSI vs. FPS is more than a "clerical" error. PIS(S) and UPS would be clerical or typographical . It is a substantial error. There are numerous loads that bump up to SAAMI maximum pressures that fall below 1200 fps. As for chamber lengthening .25" over 2.5" can be enough to blow chambers in some guns shooting modern loads with pressures not consistent with the gun's mfg. For instance, some Fox guns, especially 16 ga. Lengthening a double's chambers by a reputable smith who is capable of measuring wall thickness is one thing, but not all smiths are created the same. But see Sherman Bell's study of shooting 2.75" ammo out of short chambers. Pressures didn't increase substantially, but more than likely they weren't maximum SAAMI. Gil

gls,what is the point of your continuing to drone on here about psi vs fps...

the practice of safely opening chambers is long established and needs no defense...

My purpose of "droning" on is to prevent someone from blinding themselves with a burst chamber after listening to your torching advice...

nonsense...

You asked, I answered. I said I disagreed with part of your advice and said why. You called my opinions and observations untrue. Hard to see how my opinions and observations are untrue. I mentioned the facts of your biases and past comments. You were left sputtering, deflecting and trying to exit with egg on your face.

Someone has been a dick here and it hasn't been me.

BTW, you've also been a dick to GLS in this thread when he rightly pointed out a mistake you made. You should have said "Thanks Gil for pointing out my obvious error".

i'd prefer we get back to helping provide worthwhile advice to the OP.


My apologies Doug for this senseless diversion.

agreed, senseless...

watts ah matta...

you boys don wanna play no mo...