doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Huh? H&R A&D, belgian proor marks??

Well, that all sounds like a Fine Fantasy Tale, but the Belgian Tubeset Schaefer sourced did pass thru the Liége Proof Facility.

We have hashed out similar before & I think it comes down to the Patent Protection Period for the country of use.

S,D&G / Daly / Lindner waited till about 20 years before they ceased paying for the APUN thru Francotte. And the German makers waited a little longer extinguishing about all other platforms before they settled on the Anson & Deeley Body Action, other than a true sidelock. Now I am just not sure if the wait was for Daly's end user for the Patent Protection Period, if was where it was manufactured or where the APUN was paid?

Now Daly did bring the Anson & Deeley Body Action to Suhl and Lindner took it to the PInnacle of Perfektion. It was only then that other Suhl makers began to adopt it as the preferred platform. Then the Kerner - Anson became the staple.

Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

I believe the Patent Protection Period for Britain was 14 years in 1875;

U.S of A. was 17 years;

And Germany was 15 years, but commencing in 1877.....

But the Belt & Braces addition was filed say in 1882 or 1883??


Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

So that would be 1875 + 14 years = 1889 for G.B.

1875 - 17 years for the U.S. of A. = 1892 and that is just about when Lindner's wares are devoid of the APUN. Too, this is the exact year of the 1st year of Proof Law in 1892, to become engaged in early 1893.


Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

And as a sidenote regarding the Anson & Deeley Body Action and the mechanics in Ferlach, they really didn't adopt the platform until WWI or after(Jani please correct me if I am incorrect). Their clients held w/ hammerguns & steel buttplates until that generation was extinguished by time.


Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

Getting back to the original question about the H and R gun, it was a fine gun at one time, but it has had some off gauge tubes cobbled up to the original receiver. Here is what the barrel flats on an H and R Anson Deeley design gun should look like.







Not at all like this cobbled up set.

even further suggestion that #25 is a product of schaefer's shop...

post h&r production...

note that schaefer was one of half dozen or so who held wr license to make guns based on a&d patents...

other well known names include Francotte and Linder...

finding and collecting the various versions of these early a&d patents guns could become a whole new collector niche...

as a start, highly recommend campbell's book, referenced above...

Ed Good, I have had maybe 8 or 10 Schaefer guns and none were crap like that.

Why would a low serial number (25) be associated with any production that occurred post Harrington & Richardson?

That dog don’t hunt, ed.

Best,
Ted

i think kutter nailed this, and daryl has supplied ample corroborating evidence - this is an H & R gun separated from its original barrels, almost certainly a 10 gauge, and was rebarreled with a liege supplied barrel set. the work was done stateside, thus no proofmarks were required - supplier had no 10's, but could step a 12 up to match the action width. seller is trying to spin it up to be the remains of a super rare two gauge set (unheard of! never before seen!), or the result of some exotic collaboration by two very famous makers.

slick eddie's used cars & fine guns....