doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com French 16ga any information

Just bought this French 16 listing says no maker. I always thought this action was called/ made by Brueil, but not sure since he was a barrel maker? Will have more information when arrives but looked like a no brainer to me. Any information would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Great Grab. That Wood is Stellllllarrrr..... Looks to be the quintessential St. Étienne Anson & Deeley Body Action w/ 1/2 pipe side frame reinforcement. My hope it that it has the feather weight tubeset....


Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

I do wonder the date where the mechanics @ St. Étienne fully adopted the Anson & Deeley Body Action...... It is the pinnacle of platforms. The trouble w/ the cheaper Blitz Platforms, and others, is that the trigger pull becomes heavy over time & is difficult to regulate.


Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

I've been doin' a lot of diggin' as of late on the origins of proof rules/law & the French under the Order of the Committee of Public Safety in Paris dated I Vendémiaire of the year III of the French Revolutionary calendar(September 22, 1794) established and was the basis, along with the St. Étienne rules, of the Liége rules. The mechanics in St. Étienne apparently like to apply their mark to their wares, whilst the mechanics @ Liége preferred to peddle >>Trade Guns<< devoid of any marks less the name of the firearms merchant/retailer atop the barrel(s). Said >>Trade Guns<< in Liege were exempted, included, exempted, included depending on the law @ the time. That's what they wanted to ship their wares to a jumping off point without any names to their customers like in Portugal and Portuguese Colonies like Brazil who highly favoured the small bore(68 bore/gauge they referred to as 32 Bore but was actually a 410. Remember their bore diameter was per Kilo or the French weight unit) for Jungle / Bush Hunting.

This too was about the time that the French established the Prime Meridian going thru Paris......



Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

Really nice looking gun. Will need pictures of water table, barrel flats, the usual advertisement do-dad stamps on the barrels, any maker stamps, etc. Assume the barrels are the French standard 27.5" (70 cm) and the chambers the mostly usual 2 1/2" (65 mm) (If the gun has been in the USA, check to see if chambers were lengthened, a common occurrence).

The checkering on the half-pistol grip is very French - it is skip line checkering creating a Scottish tartan effect. Wingshooter many years ago said it was called "quadrille Scottish" In fact that would be "quadrillage écossais" - the term for Scottish tartan - in French and used to describe the checkering on stocks.

Chokes likely will be Full/Full unless it has been in the States for awhile.

since you mentioned Jean Breuil, here are a couple of barrels you can reference - note: one of them is chambered for 70mm:



Here is a post 1955 Jean Breuil for sale on Naturabuy:
https://www.naturabuy.fr/FUSIL-CHAS...s-bon-Categorie-C-XXe-item-12482127.html

Thanks she has 27.5 inch barrels skt1 x skt2 and weighs 5 10 per listing. Is an extractor gun. I just have been very impressed with these french doubles ( obviously look for decent quality) lately. This one is stocked to my specs and should be a dandy quail/ grouse gun. Will post pics when in hand. Thanks again

https://www.doublegunshop.com/forum...=+poids+plume&Search=true#Post635699

I think the term for which I was searching is plume something....


>>De ses exploits, nous pourrions tenir un roman, nous nous contenterons d'aborder sa plus grande gloire : l'invention du canon plume.<<

Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

"Canon Plume" (Feather barrel) was a registered trademark of Didier-Drevet which pretty much eliminated the lower rib.



Roll tide (with some trepidation).

The present low appreciation of the many simpler (yet well-made and sturdy) French shotguns is indeed a sad thing. Abroad, only two to three famous names are well-known and rewarded with a corresponding price esteem. But even Darne and Charlin (not really uncommon in France herself) can be gotten for a pittance, compared to their intrinsic value.

Simple French and Belgian 16ga boxlock doubles are not bought at all any more, regardless of price; here, dealers and gunsmiths get them from estates, together with the other guns, and either destroy them, or send them off in bulk to Eastern Europe if they have the appropriate connections (10 to 25 €uros each, depending upon condition).

Carcano

Believe it or not 16ga Francotte knock abouts in great condition still sell for over 2k here in the US. I was surprised to see this one listed for 25% of that.

It is a lightweight.

Yes one sunken rib 5lbs 10oz balances on hinge pin. According to listing

You are of course very correct to remind us all that what I wrote above for French shotguns, is to a large extent also true for Belgian shotguns (like Francotte), notably for the simpler and more "mundane" ones. Yes, true.

At least here, the old shotgun aficionados and collectors DIE. One after the other. Dead. And nobody new or younger comes through, no filling up of the ranks from below. No new young collectors who could start with 1 €uro guns (no, this is NOT a joke nor hyperbole). From those who commented still vividly and curmudgeonly on scattergun topics in the German online hunting fora of the early 2000s, most are DEAD now. Game over; knowledge and experience lost. No tradition of those memory gems to the next generation.

Carcano

Thanks Carcano. I totally understand and agree with your assessment. It is happening over here just a bit slower. I never looked at fine guns as a investment but will definitely unload so to speak what I won’t use.

I find that 16 rather spend interesting. I think it is the first I've seen where the upper part of the stock extends all the way to the receiver balls. I to have s light little French 16 dating to the very early 1900s but not near as handsome as the OPs.

What maker is this jam?

Okay found fab500 post translated by Argo, looks to be a Jean Aimé Maisonnial? Any information?
Triple proof 65mm lengthened to 70mm and Bnp cip proofs now.

https://www.doublegunshop.com/forum...p;Board=1&main=47720&type=thread,
Also addresses Cuillard, the barrel borer.

FAB500 give a good history of Maisonnial here:
https://doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=605133

------------------------------ translation ---------------------------------------------------

The Maisonnial's were originally from Lapt (Haute-Loire, France).

The first to enter the profession of gunmaker was Jean Aimé Maisonnial, born in Saint-Etienne on 22 April 1896. He was the son of Jean Maisonnial, traveling businessman, and Anna Sarron, employee of a tobacco business at the place Chavanelle, (Saint-Etienne) in the gunmakers quarter.

Aimé married Rosalie Boyer at Saint-Etienne on 16 June 1920. That same year, after an apprenticeship and a trip around France to visit a number of gunmakers, Aimé Maisonnial sold the three guns that he had succeeded in making outside of his work-hours, and set himself up at 68 grande rue Saint Rochelles at Saint-Etienne. He is mentioned as being at 13 rue des Rives in 1931. On 26 November 1931 under number 5475, Aimé Maisonnial registered a trademark "Royal-Super-Steel; Crochet-Aherobloc". He would renew this trademark on 26 December 1946.

From his marriage came three sons. The oldest Joannès (1922-1978), worked very early beside his father and succeeded him. Installed at 13 de la rue Clément Forissier at least from 1931, Maisonnial Father and Sons continued to make guns during the entire war. They created a stock which made their fortune after the war, until the years 1950-52 when Myxomatose (Rabbit virus) depressed the market.

Joannès Maisonnial, trained at the Professional school then in the workshop of his father, took over after his death in 1957. He began probably between 1962 and 1964 the fabrication of an Over/Under with automatic ejectors under license from the patents 1.307.757 et 1.328.873. of Georges Jay from 23 November 1961 and 17 July 1962 with an addition on 12 November 1964. He retained his workshop until 1965 when at with time, no longer finding qualified workers to maintain the level of production, he decided to close. There remained a lot of stock. In Algeria, Boumédienne had just taken power and reopened the commerce in guns. The demand was strong. All the stock was sent to Algeria. The workshop was then disassembled and Joannès Maisonnial left for Vichy. There he opened a Gun store "Aux Armes de Saint-Etienne." Joannès Maisonnial died in 1978.


Better photos please. Looks like it has Birmingham proofs on it but can't tell.