doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Manufrance Ideal - help with grade etc.

Comment by fab500:

"I just checked the serial number list for the Idéal Perfection
Your serial number is not on the list
I see that you also have a very beautiful Idéal 6REE
I also have the serial number list for this gun".

This from M. Mournetas book "Le Fusil Idéal".

He says that there are three lists in circulation concerning dates of Idéals by serial number. One is a fantasy having been established from
supposed information had from badly interpreted writings. Another, from a more serious origin, seem to have been established according to
the production of barrels. It has nothing to do with finished guns sold yearly.
He says he has an official document supplied by Manufrance Management on page 45 of the 1989 catalog. This is the list of produced guns from
1887 to 1897
Numbers that follow come from official documents.
Columns are: Year of Production. Number of guns made. Serial numbers.

Salut,
L'Idéal Perfection REC a toujours eu 2 caractéristiques qui n'ont jamais changées. La première étant le renfort de crosse, type as de pique. Et la seconde étant les 2 ailettes de renfort relevées sur le canon alors que sur votre fusil elles sont relevées sur la bascule.
La deuxième photo des plats de canons indique que ce sont les chocs qui sont perfectionnés (améliorés).
N'ayant pas le numéro de série complet pour cette arme, je ne peux pas vraiment vérifier sa date de fabrication sur le registre des fusils 6 REE.

regrettably, my track record for rendering photographs on this site is pretty grim - i will attempt to send some stuff to james via email - several photos from the auction company.

would someone please translate fab's comments for me....the suspense is killing me.

my guess as to what he told james, is that the use of the word(s) "perfectionni" is related to the chokes. several of the french choke artists incorporate something about perfection in their proof copy. if my email of photos is successful, one will show that the watertable of #26331 is boldly stamped "FUSIL IDEAL PERFECTION", and in my very limited knowledge i assume this is the critical mark.

best regards,
tom

LOL, I just got on here this afternoon to send you a message to say I'd be happy to post some pics for you.

I used Google translate and got a pretty good gist of it. Just a couple things seemingly out in left field. Will do it again and post.

Google translate of Fab's post.


A couple things interest me with this. First, never have I run across saying that only Ace of Spades guns were given the name "Perfection". Fab is correct that on my gun the sideclips are on the receiver and there is a slight cutaway on the barrels where they meet. The other thing is Fab's referencing lists, by serial number, of Perfections, of 6RE-Es. I have never heard of such lists existing. Would like to find more out about that.

I switched my understanding of my gun's designation from 6RE-E, which took several years to determine, to 7RE-C Perfection as a result of Martin Godio's research into models as shown in the annual catalogues. One of the interesting points he appeared to have discovered is at the upper range of the grades, things were only what they were called that year as listed in the catalogue. And that might change year to year.

Tom's MF Ideal 5S:

IDEAL PERFECTION 7REP (tire aux pigeons)
Pas de problème pour celui-là.

So this is fascinating to us MF Ideal fans.

I sent Fab my full serial number and he was able to locate it in what he has been calling his "lists".

His lists are MF ledgers!!!!

He noted that while a production date is not noted for my gun, there is another gun, two serial numbers apart, that was made in 1912....but that my gun was sold in the early 1920s. The ledger also notes mine was returned to the factory several times, most likely for repairs. He cautions about relying on Mournatas's date lists.

To add to this thread, here is the penultimate post on this line investigating SN's of Robusts:
https://doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=642738

It is evident that Manufrance SN records exist and that FAB500 has access to them. It is also evident that the French, unlike the Brits, refuse to realize they can fund their archives by charging a modest fee for information. You will have to go to Saint-Etienne to get anything:

- - - - - - text - - - - -

Just to close this thread, FAB reported that the Manufrance gun SN records exist and are kept at Archives Departmentales de la Loire. He also said that it has been several years since they have responded to emails or written correspondence. FAB said to find the records you are looking for, you'll have to go to St. Etienne directly. Unlike British archives, who will do the research for you for a charge, the French apparently regard such arrangements as unseemly capitalism.

After Two emails and a snail letter, I've received absolutely nothing back from Loire Archives. I guess that's the way it is until someone changes the bureaucratic mindset there.