doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Manufrance Ideal - help with grade etc.

Dear fellow enthusiasts,
This is my first post on this forum, and I would like to take this opportunity to introduce myself. My name is Gustavo, I am from Portugal, and I am 43 years old.

I recently acquired an Ideal that I found at a gunsmith’s shop in the north of my country. I have developed a genuine passion for this firearm and am very eager to discover more about it. According to the gunsmith, this would be a weapon manufactured for an exhibition. I strongly doubt this claim.

In fact, given that it bears model number 347, it seems far more likely to me that it falls into that category of a firearm crafted by some local gunsmith, as has been described previously. Moreover, the fact that it displays two serial numbers, one from 1895 and another from 1929, piques my curiosity even further. Could the barrels date from 1895 and the stock from 1929?

This stock mechanism is also intriguing, as according to the reference book, it only equipped firearms from the first year of production.
Since the photographs are very large files, I am providing a link so that you can download them.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1hvMpbPxqA5vKcRLvpfSOA0ASf4nF2HmR

I remain very grateful for everything I have learned here and for any information you may be able to share with me.

With my most fraternal regards,
Gustavo

Hi Gustavo

My apologies for the delay in responding to you. I have been quite intrigued by your gun and have come to similar conclusions.

I believe this gun to be a hybrid of a 1930s action with a pre 1895 barrel set. It can't be pre 1930 as the model naming method changed completely between 1930 and 1931. Also, action is post 1908 as that was around when the dual loop triggerguard was dropped.

I have never seen one with markings like this. Never seen one that doesn't have the 5 digit serial number on the action somewhere. Nor have I seen one after 1910 with Damascus barrels. Model number 347 does not exist according to my information, although that doesn't mean MF didn't have one. The engraving is consistent with a model like a 346. This one's a mystery. I wish Wingshooter was still with us as he'd love this puzzle.

One thing that points to a "Franken-gun" is the recent refurbishment. It's exactly what one would do if assembling a parts gun.

I'm not done with this yet. Going to look through some of my reference info more and see what I can put together.

Cheers

James

Bem-vindo Gustavo
The barrels have a very interesting pattern, which is a variant of Laminette Simple



BUT the Twist segments are, I believe, Bernard Twist which I've never seen





The barrels were double proved to 16,356 psi by crushers which would be about 18,000 psi by modern transducer measurement. The barrels should of course be evaluated for defects and adequate wall thickness before using the gun.

BTW the ends of both firing pins are pointed and need to be reworked

Good information Drew but I think you are looking at the cocking indicators. The firing pins are not visible in that photo.

You are correct.

I suspect that is a "Loaded" indicator that protrudes subtly from the back of the breach ball.

Beautiful gun!

I've gone through all my records and am mystified. Can't offer any coherent comment other than that 70 mm chambers were actually available on Saint-Etienne guns forever but up until 1924 would have been labeled "7.0." We need FAB500 so come back on board.

Salut,

Ce fusil est un remontage.
Les canons en damas éclair 4 baguettes datent de la période 1890. Ils ne portent aucun pinçon de la Manu.
La bascule est une numéro 2 des années 1920. Elle porte l'épreuve officielle de la Manu postérieure à 1926 (une cible transpercée par une flèche multipliée par 2 indiquant qu'elle a subi une épreuve à 1100 bars). Qu'est devenu son canon ?
Les gravures de la bascule et la crosse ne sont pas d'origine.
L'arme avec son canon damas a été réprouvée à l'épreuve supérieure postérieure à 1960.

A rough translation of Fab’s post:

Hello,

This gun is a reassembly.

The 4-stick lightning damask cannons date from the 1890 period. They don't wear any Manu clamps.

The rocker is a number 2 of the 1920s. It carries the official test of the Manu after 1926 (a target pierced by an arrow multiplied by 2 indicating that it underwent a test at 1100 bars). What happened to his barrels?

The engravings of the rocker and the butt are not original.

The weapon with its damask barrel was disapproved in the higher test after 1960.

Merci’ Fab!

Best,
Ted

1890 catalog



Extra barrels available



Damas Eclair. The alternees are finer, but I can't 'read' how many baguettes/rods



I think this was courtesy of FAB. Post-1923 proof pressures. The double crown over PT started in 1923. 1100 kg/cm2 = 15,646 psi by crushers