doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com uses for gradations of black powder

I will be shooting my John Manton flintlock today and will use 3fg powder for the load, and 4fg for a primer, if necessary. Looking at my black powder supply, I have accumulated a number of gradations. In your experience, what are the uses of each of the following gradations ? 1fg, 2fg, 3fg, 4fg
Here's the Manton that we'll try out today.

I use 2F in medium bore rifles and 1 or 1& 1/2 F in larger bore rifles. I don't shoot ml shotguns or flintlocks, though I have an interest in both.

SKB, thanks. What primers are you using in your rifles ? I assume you make sure the loaded cartridge has no air space voids in it and that you possible fill any void with ??? I have a 28 ga. pinfire double rifle and in trying to develop a proper load I was warned to have no voids in the loaded case.

4F is for priming only, according to everything I have read, using it for the main charge could result in dangerous pressures.

The bigger the number, the finer the powder resulting in a more consistent burn rate and higher pressures. Cannon powder is very coarse. I've used reenactor powder in the past in modern guns. Given the variations in the powder, I view it as left over powder mixed together as a lower cost alternative for the reenactor to use and will not use it in an antique or valuable gun.

I've shot everything from cannon powder to 3F and Triple 777 2F substitute during cowboy shooting matches in cap & ball revolvers, center fire revolvers, rifle and shotgun.

Do not use petroleum based cleaning products with black powder. Either Ballistol, soap and hot water or equal parts rubbing alcohol, hydrogen peroxide and Murphy's Oil Soap all work well.

I would not use Windex w/ammonia or vinegar on a valuable gun, it MAY harm bluing and browning.

John Manton flintlock shotgun would best be loaded with 2F or 1F. It is a general, but not hard rule, that 3F is for small-bore guns, bores smaller than 50 caliber. My largest caliber is a 54, and when I change from my usual load using 2F and substitute an equal amount of 3F, the increase in recoil is noticeable. It was also recommended to me here that reducing velocity tightens shotgun patterns, which may be of interest. 4F, as noted, is for priming.

Great looking gun!

I shoot a lot of blackpowder. The vast majority of my shooting requires it. Granulation is not particularly sensitive. For shotguns, I tend to use whatever odds and ends and odd, lots and door prize black powder. I have laying around. However, black powder cartridges can be a bit capacity challenged, and 3f, will work well there.

A few reputable, blackpowder cartridge shooters have tried four f in case is as large as forty five seventies and maybe larger. It did not produce anything dangerous, but it also did not provide anything like accuracy either.

In rifles, I generally prefer 1.5 and 2F for everything from a 25-20 single shot to a 45-100 (aka, 2.4").

I was taught by a NMLRA Champion this general rule of thumb:

Fg Cannon powder
FFg Larger bore rifles and pistols (above .40 cal.) and shotguns (12 ga. and 16 ga.)
FFFg Smaller bore rifles (under .40 cal.) and pistols
FFFg Flintlock priming only

I have stuck pretty closely by this and had great success. I have experimented a bit with the dividing line between FFg and FFFg and find that to be forgiving in certain cases. Keep in mind that I was always striving for the most accurate loads in percussion patched roundball rifles.

I might add, it was always taught me by my BP mentors that the finer granulation you use, given equal charge weights, the higher your chamber pressure would be. iI was explained to me that this was because of the rate of burning. Apparently, the finer the granulation the more kernel surface area you have on a given charge. And, the more surface area you have the quicker it burns, thus raising chamber pressures. Again, this is just what was taught me by the old timers.

Somebody might prove that to be wrong but you won't get into trouble following that advice, I don't think.

Those are beautiful locks, Daryl.

Thanks, all. The John Manton is advertised, way back then, as a self primer. When the powder is tamped down, a bit is supposed to leak out into the pan. My 16 ga. gun was loaded with 3fg as it seemed fine enough to self prime. The first shot detonated properly without added priming. The other barrel did not detonate. I primed the unsuccessful barrel, but still no detonation. I discovered that the unsuccessful barrel's flint was a bit loose. After repositioning and tightening the flint, it fired properly. Lots of slow, delicate preparation in operating a flintlock. No wonder that the percussion gun, and then the pinfire became more popular.

You got some good advice on powder granulations. In spite of the self priming feature of the Manton lock, I think I'd still prefer 4F for priming and 2F in the fowler barrel. I think overcoming the challenges of what it takes to make a flintlock reliably fire in all kinds of weather is a big part of the fun involved. There is a fairly long learning curve compared to a percussion gun, which is far simpler.

Just getting a flintlock to fire is pretty easy, but only part way there. When you do everything properly, you should have a very short lock time, i.e., virtually no delay or hesitation in firing as compared to a percussion or cartridge firearm. Some people think that delay is normal and unavoidable. A short lock time means the gun fires when the sights are aligned with the target, and not a fraction of a second later. That takes well designed locks with good springs, a correctly hardened frizzen, a correctly sized vent in the correct location, a good sharp flint properly installed and of the correct configuration, good dry powder, the correct amount of priming, and more.

I've hunted all day on damp rainy days, frequently checking my pan to make sure my priming was still dry and fluffy, and patted myself on the back for keeping things operational. Then there have been mostly dry days where I felt confident all was well, but when I got back to the truck at the end of the day, my pan powder was a moist black paste. And I wondered how many hours I carried a dead and useless rifle. All it takes to make your gun inert is one snowflake or a drop of water from the trees or brush to land between the pan and barrel.

Even that can be avoided by carrying a small tin of beeswax, and using your pocket knife to lightly caulk that area to shed water or snow. Little details like that, all added together, vastly improve your odds. But when you line up your sights on an animal, you still can't be 100% certain the damn thing will go off... and that's why I love it.