doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Light strikes on primer

in the left barrel of a new to me, Win 21, made in 1956. Appears to be in excellent condition. Two theories offered by friends with 21's are, 1. chamber rims cut a fraction too deep, 2. Spring is not as strong as it should be. I am reloading W AA's using cheddite primers. I pulled triggers on a block of wood and both left and right firing pins protrude about the same distance, farther than the thickness of a dime. I haven't yet but plan to try other brands of shells and keep track if it is only reloads or does it happen with new shells. Open to other suggestions.

It's most likely not the shotgun.

Good morning Nitrah.
I have the same problem on an early 12 gauge Tournament Skeet.
I load a pillow soft 7/8 oz load using Federal papers with a Win 209 primer on a Mec 8567 Grabber.

I adjusted the powder tube height so as to set the primer at its absolute highest point (least amount of depth).
I scored the tube each try and backed off after finding which height setting was not quite flush.

Did it work? While I believe it will take the issue of primer depth out of the equation,
I don’t know for sure because at the same time I sent my gun off to the stockman for a new stick of wood.
Time will tell.

When you dry fire the action on a block of wood,,do each of the imprints of the separate firing pins show about the same depth in the wood?
Or does the Left bbl show a shallow depth compared to the RH side.

They may protrude from the action face the same,,but if the LH is hanging up, stalling for some reason, or a weak spring, a shallow imprint compared to the 'good bbl' will usually show up.

Someone may have shortened the spring a bit in order to reassemble the gun.
They can be a bear to reassemble if you are unfamiliar with them. Easy if you are familiar with the process. There is even a small tool to pull the spring back (compress it) so the front end
components can be installed easily. Then the hammers can be dropped into place by putting the bbls and FE on the frame and opening the gun a ways. No struggling with springs.

Unaware of these things people start struggling with the powerful hammer spring(s). A couple coils clipped off will make
re-assembly much easier using the 'muscle it into position' method of assembly.
But that doesn't help with reliability.

Just some thoughts.

I experienced the same issue on two model 21's and an Ithaca NID. In each case, I found that the hammer springs had either been previously mutilated, not installed correctly or the wrong springs had been installed. Replacing the springs solved the problem for me.

No telling what has happened to an 80 to 100 year old gun during its lifetime.

Welcome, and good to see your first post.

Best,
Ted

Very wise to experiment with a variety of common cartridges to determine the frequency and significance of the issue. You can also use my low-brow, rubber-band under the shell rim. If it were indeed deep chamber rims, carefully applied JB Weld and a properly lubed case could be a remedy. Something I would do, but that's me.(Based on firing pins protruding correctly) Testing with commonly available ammunition is the first test.

I might add that, assuming you are not using any reloads and your machine is smashing the rims too flat.

Having worked at Winchester/US repeating ARMS and Connecticut Shotgun I can tell you this is a very common problem. They have two very good gunsmiths there that work on these and when I used to work with Bill Smith who used to be head of the custom shop at Winchester had always came down to one problem interference, and it usually lies with the cocking arms, slowing the hammer fall down into the fore end that said a lot easier than actually repairing it without chewing everything up when I worked at both places, this was a common ailment that came in weekly and we would shoot them right out the back door at Winchester. Connecticut Shotgun was a little more sophisticated. They had a shooting facility and indoor shooting Tubes Where you could really test the gun. Hope that helps.

Jeff, do you have access to a depth micrometer?

I wouldn't rely on not fully seating primers to cure your issue as that can be another cause of FTF as the strike on the primer can take up the "slack" and absorb the strike completing seating without igniting the primer. Gil