doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion German & Austrian Sporting Guns @ doublegunshop.com August Jung Viernau-5.6x61R vom Hofe Super Express

Some kind soul graciously allowed me to take this August Jung Viernau - Thueringen retailed 5.6x61R vom Hofe Super Express War Trophy off their hands.


62 cm tubeset w/ 36 cm LOP





5,5mm
61mm
539
891
5,1 gramme bullet(K.m.G.)



Krupp up top & Böhler Spezial on the bottom.


Blitz Platform w/ Non- Auto Safety



Any starting load data coupled with a bullet weight & diameter would be most appreciated¿

Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

Assembled Kombo weighs 3.03 kg & tubeset weighs 1,461 grammes, but of course there isn't a weight stamp.

Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

Looks like a beautiful and high quality gun.

Indeed & all the Kombos have 62 cm tubeset length, are quite similar in shape & form, have the 1/2 Pipe Side-Frame Reinforcement & according to Axel E. they were made by Christoph Funk, but the bulk of them passed thru the Z-M Proof Facility and one just doesn't see Christoph Funk's mark. Of course it could be hidden & gearing up for the 2nd Major Disagreement in Europe, the Suhl Proof Facility might have been very busy with instruments of War?

Axel E. also notes the following:


>>The DEVA once listed two pressure tested loads:
70 gr Hornady, 51.5 gr IMR 4831 for 3540 fps
77 gr Gehmann original, 53.2 gr IMR 4831 for 3500 fps
As the cartridge is known for Secondary Explosion Effects, downloading is advised against.<<

Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

Too, most of Z-M stamped touchmarks I have viewed give a 5,1 gramme(79 grains) projectile. I realize there's not a huge difference to the 70 grain. I guess maybe the bullet weight & powder charge were the same number, just move the decimal, just to make things easy?

Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

Raimey,
Slug the bore, grooves will likely be either .227" or .228". This will be somewhat of a problem, if you use bullets made for 2,800 fps 22 Savage HP, limit velocity to 3,000 fps. Do not use slow powder for the lower velocity loads. Cases will also be problematic. With your connections, see if you can find some 6.5x62R or the more available 6.5x65R cases. Failing that, 7x65R will work, but forming them will likely lead to pretty high losses. If you use 7x65R and run low, I can help out. The friend that "bumped up" heavy .224" bullets to .228" does not do this for the public, so I can't give it out. If he sees this and reaches out to you, great. BillK is right, it is a really nice gun.
Good luck,
Mike

Ford:

Thanks & I have proper brass & some bullets along with dies that I had stuck back as about 20 years ago I was on the cusp to acquire one but the fella unexpectedly died & his 2nd wife dispersed everything. Actually I had the rifle for some time getting ready to load some ammo for him. Just need to find them & up see what I have. I tried & tried to get some ammo, but it is like Hen's teeth.

Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

I have read that some have used Nobel No. 0 powder years ago w/ the 70 grain bullet & H870 for the 77 grain.

Hofe originally advertised the 5,6X61 Vom Hofe Express as pushing a 77 grain bullet w/ 54 grains of Rottweil powder @ 3707 ft/s. I do wonder which Rottweil??

How would a choice of Vihtavuori N165 or N560 strike you???


Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

Raimey,
I believe the 3707-fps velocity was for the rimless version, and the rimmed version was advertised at 3400 + (I didn't take time to look it up, but it doesn't make much difference, I don't recall anyone getting that with a chronograph). As I recall, I got around 3250fps with the bumped up 80 grain bullets. I didn't feel confident enough to go beyond that, I didn't want to lose the rifle. I used 4350, I don't know much about Vihtavuori powders. If I had to do it again, I think I would find someone with a ballistics program to run it. If the program didn't include the max pressure for 5.6x61R, I would use the one for 7x65R which I believe was 46500 psi CUP. When you said you have proper brass, do you mean original factory cases. If so, do you have Berdan primers also? If you find out the Rottweil powder was R5, that will give us something else to go on. I think they stopped loading the ammo in the early 70s, I can remember Waffen Frankonia having some "in stock" while I was there the first time, but I didn't have the rifle then. By then to be legal for large game the cartridges not only had to meet energy requirements (1440 fp) but also had to be 6.5mm.
Mike
t

So, IMR 4350?

Serbus,

Raimey
rse