doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Nelson Nickel Steel??? Liège for R. Ménard-Rouen

Indeed a Wand with a short stock....


Looks like Post 1924 that the Belgians adopted the German Choke designation by just stamping >>Choke<< if the constriction was 0.008" or more. I assume that Germans were for the most part in Charge and made this rules change.

So here they give a nominal bore of 16.9mm, which is a skosh larger than the average 16 bore @ the time.

The left tube measures around 16.13mm at the muzzle while the right tube has a diameter of 16.4mm at the muzzle.

Using a value of 3% in the difference in the weight of the tubeset @ 1,170 kg, would mean that the current weight couldn't be 35 grammes less without be considered >>Out Of Proof<<.

My dusty kitchen scale value of 1,153 kg / stamped value of 1,170 equals a 1% difference for honing and not taking account of the sling swivel weight.

Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

SuperFund Site Maker(Polluter of Hudson River???) Dewey Loeffel had his gun safes in his cellar or basement and that was the reason for the external condition. To be honest, the guns doesn't look to have been shot many times @ all.

Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

as per the wirnsberger/steindler text; the rules effective 23 june, 1924, most barrel makings disappeared, leaving only CHOKE and CH B RAYE. bores were determined 8.6" (22cm) from breech, and CHOKE indicated .008 or greater constriction - but without marking the degree of choke. thus the 16.9 would be the bore, and degree of choke would be measured in reference to that....so you have .016 & .020, or there abouts....

didn't see the 3% weight differential reference in my quick look, but that agrees with my (old) memory...and from that same source, i believe the weight was taken when barrel set was finished (but perhaps prior to bluing).

hard not to like a nice light, well made 16, with useful choking - enjoy it in good health.

best regards,

tom

Again, I think that the Germans were in charge in Liège & that even adds to it. I plan to pattern it with big shot, even if Turkey Season closed today......


Serbus,

Raimey
rse

i had never made the connection that the german occupation would have naturally driven changes in the belgian proof rules...both logical and likely.

overnight another "new thought" has floated to the top, after your reference to your trusty & rusty kitchen scales; i have a similar set of the very handy digital scales - purchased at an estate sale for a few bucks - and i have always "assumed" were reasonably accurate. after reading your post, relating a 1% variation from the proof marked weight, i have realized that such a variation could easily be "baked into the cake"...and i have resolved to search out some sort of test measurement to verify their accuracy.

best regards,

tom

I don't think the Germans ran anything in Belgium after 1918. German soldiers of the Brussels garrison mutinied against their officers November 9, 1918. Nov. 11 an Armistice was signed and the last of the German troops left Belgium Nov. 23. The day before King Albert 1 made his Joyous Entry into Brussels. The 120,000 workers that had been deported to Germany came home. Those that had remained in the arms industry probably didn't have warm feelings toward the Germans.

Fair Point, but I still think the Germans drove the Proof Kart. They set the bar as well as the tone, then a decade later they took over.

If you reload powder & have a digital scale, typically there's a test cylinder with it.

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

Well, I found my 100 gramme test cylinder & checked the Trusty, Dusty Kitchen Scales and indeed they are spot-on, so I hold with the 1%.

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

Any other Board Member have a >>Between the Wars<< Belgian 16 bore double with good stamps that we could also use as another example and has a set of Kat Certified, Trusty, Dusty, Rusty, Accurate Kitchen Digital Scales?

I'll start another thread with Austrian tubeset weights.


Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

Well, I am glad my Trusty, Dusty, Kitchen Kat Certified Scales are accurate as I just measured a set of E. Bernard Böhler Eclair(12 Bore) that were stamped as >>P(oids???) 1K375.9<< and those bad boys fell short of the target weight by about 4 oz short so we probably don't want to talk about that. But it does carry a decimal so I would say that dates it somehow?

I assume the P notes Poids?

Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse