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Forums10
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Jul 28th, 2025
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Joined: Aug 2007
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
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Also, I would hazard a guess that the platform was cobbled together in August between August 3rd(Circa) and August 13th. Could have been a little earlier. I will have to dig to find some Suhl examples proofed in Mid 1946 to see when they actually commenced with a full regiment of proofmarks.
Hochachtungsvoll,
Raimey
rse
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2 members like this:
luv2safari, Carcano |
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Joined: Apr 2013
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Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 788 Likes: 90 |
Thank you for all the information, I learned something new. I didn't know that there was a period of time that guns were produced in the GDR that didn't receive proof marks. I have a 1959 Simson O/U with a full compliments of proof marks.
After the first shot the rest are just noise.
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Joined: Aug 2007
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 12,077 Likes: 378 |
A Little more info: >>As far as I know, there were three types of "Suhl Best" guns made around 1945-1951 - Parts of general order for making sporting guns, as part of 'reparation of war damages'. The Suhl gunmaking guilt was basically told to go and make as many guns as they could - the demand was insatiable and hunting was an important part of the economy. Mostly they were plane Jane guns, but some higher grades were produced too. - "Special order" placed by the USSR military commandment of the occupational zone, as gifts for high-ranking officers. This order went through Otto Reif initially. - "bread guns", ordered privately by individual Soviet officers for personal use; these orders were often paid in military rations, thus the name.<< https://doublegunshop.com/forums/ub...;Main=32990&Number=381130#Post381130Serbus, Raimey rse
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Joined: Aug 2007
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 12,077 Likes: 378 |
I have it in the back of my mind that I read somewhere that the Germans @ the Suhl Proof Facility hid Black Powder under the floor of the Proofhouse, but I have not been able to find the reference and AI is not helping much.
Hochachtungsvoll,
Raimey
rse
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Joined: Aug 2007
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
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>> ......I think the 1944 is more of a date that a serial number, assembly number or anything of the like. I'm not sure on the Italian proof facilities, but I'm highly confident that the German proof facilities were closed in the Summer of 1945 and reopened in September or October of 1945. I've read accounts that the Russian occupants under Major General Ivan Sazonovicha Kolesnichenko, Chief of the Soviet military administration in Thuringia, withheld black powder to prevent sabotage or an uprising. Either before the end of WWII or after October 1945, only black powder was available. Right off, I can't recall seeing a German sporting weapon proofed in early 1945, but it is possible.<< Sort of along those lines.... https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=261764Hochachtungsvoll, Raimey rse
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Joined: Aug 2007
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 12,077 Likes: 378 |
Most of the USSR Reparations will wear a R in a Star similar to the below: ![[Linked Image from thumbs2.imgbox.com]](https://thumbs2.imgbox.com/95/44/cN68cqkm_t.jpg) Axel E. on Suhl Production Numbers and final destination: >>During the Soviet occupation shotgun production in Suhl was cranked up to high gear, more shotguns made in Suhl than ever before. Shotguns delivered to the USSR: In 1945 = 1593, 1946 = 21739, 1948 = 39961, a large part made by the former Sauer & Sohn factory. So the "left over pre-war parts" are pure legend. Until 1950 all the Suhl production was sent to the USSR as reparations.<< I also read that I.P. Sauer & Sohn was removed from the Suhl registry? Hochachtungsvoll, Raimey rse
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1 member likes this:
luv2safari |
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
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I also read that J.P. Sauer & Sohn was removed from the Suhl registry? The in-depth story is here, be not misled by the "Otto Reif" title: https://shotguncollector.com/2017/01/18/%D0%BE%D1%82%D1%82%D0%BE-%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B9%D1%84-%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%B5%D1%86-%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%B3%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B4%D1%8B/ Use automatic translation, if your browser supports it. Carcano
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Joined: Aug 2007
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 12,077 Likes: 378 |
„Orto Reif“ will mislead you every time, racing Simson Autos & selling rubber baby buggy bumpers,...
Serbus,
Raimey
rse
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Joined: Aug 2006
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Boxlock
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Boxlock
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2 Likes: 1 |
I noticed you mentioned the Simson/BSW company. I'm fortunate to own a BSW circa 1938 Astora Model 35 BD two barrel set, 16ga SXS and 16/8X57IR with a store branded post war scope in Suhler mounts, a 2.5-8 S&B rebranded.
Finding a two-barrel set that wasn't separated at war's end during the chaos is a rare thing.
Last edited by luv2safari; 04/20/25 02:11 AM.
Hunt with Class and Classics
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Joined: Aug 2007
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 12,077 Likes: 378 |
Yeah, usually the glass was separated. But in 1938 things were Great & Hitler was still signin' agreements. Then a year later he was mobilizing on the weak fronts. Things really didn't get worse in the hearts & minds until the realization that there were going to be occupiers. Oddly enough, today is the date of birth of Austrian Adolf Hitler.
Serbus,
Raimey
rse
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