doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Orvis Sandanona poor service

I hate to not join the party but in my opinion, after 35 years working adjacent to retail, the poor service we now get is the inevitable result of the choices we have been making as to what products to buy and what retailers to patronize.

In general we have prioritized low price over everything else. And the impact of that starts with changing the quality of the goods we have offered to us, but ultimately affects the nature of the retailers offering the product. Price and convenience trump every other metric and have for 30-40 years. So we see the decline of quality products, the rise of disposable/non repairable goods and the total dominance of self service retail environments.

To change it, we, as a society, would have to prioritize other qualities in the retailers we support and the goods we buy. Its a long slow process and most didn't understand the destination once they started down that road.

I find that, often, store employees are very ignorant of the items they sell. Not always, but more often than they should be. On the other hand knowing everything about everything in a big box store is probably unrealistic.. So, it depends.

I agree, James. But, I also blame employers for who they hire. I have operated my farming business under the mantra "You get the quality of employee that you are willing to pay for." Pay only minimum wage for employees and you get the bottom of the barrel. Employees with a good work ethic won't stay long working for minimum wage

As I said before, the buck stops with the boss.

Stan, I worked closely with specialty retailers who paid reasonably well and trained their staff. I've worked with full line department stores. With Walmart. With big box specialty retailers like Sport Mart. With on line retailers. With tiny pro shops.

When price is the trigger that motivates the vast majority of your target customer, EVERYTHING gets affected. Including how much you can pay an hour and how many employees you can have working the floor. Every single category of specialty retailer I am aware of....the kind of retailer who carried a good assortment of brands, who had knowledgeable and helpful staff and in general tried to offer a quality experience to their clientele, has been decimated by the rise of Walmart, Amazon, etc. It;s not just those two....they are just the poster boys for the problem.

You couldn't pay me enough to open a brick and mortar store these days. Our oldest and one of the biggest retailers, The Hudson Bay Company, a full line department store and mall anchor, recently declared bankruptcy and started final liquidation sales this week. It was over 100 years old before you had a nation. Gone!

I also had my own businesses to staff. I could not agree more. Pay crap, get crap. But when the margins available in the industry one has chosen don't allow for an alternative, the manager/owner is stuck. There are a few ways around the problem but they usually require access to sufficient well heeled clients.

Ultimately we get what we pay for. And as a society we have decided we aren't interested in paying for service, or knowledgeable staff. Always exceptions but I'm generalizing.

Please note that none of what I have said should be applied to Orvis. They are one of the few retailers left who, in theory, who are bucking this trend. With high quality items and knowledgeable staff. So the situation described by the OP is intolerable and if continued will result in the failure of Orvis. It's about the implied bargain the retailer makes with it's customers. With Orvis, the bargain is great product and amazing service but the prices are high, if you don't deliver on the first two, you will quickly be dead in the water.

Orvis really is a standout in an otherwise unspectacular crowd. Great products ....... I've never had need to return an item or complain about anything in close to thirty years of purchasing. I'm hoping they can stay successful for many years to come.

I owned and operated a herd of beef cattle for years. In an effort to increase profits and quality of the cattle I started artificially inseminating the cows (the original AI ). I was advised to sell every cow that did not get pregnant the first go 'round. It was a tough call and I hated to see some of those pretty cows go, but the productivity went up dramatically. They weren't producing and they were a dead weight on the rest of the herd. Management decision, just like firing an employee that isn't "producing".

Brian: I can't speak to your experience at Sandanona, but I've shot there from time to time for nearly 40 years. I'm far from a khaki and button downed shirt guy and I've always been treated fairly and friendly. I do know that they can get very backlogged as they have to deal with customers of all levels of experience which can take lots of their time. I wouldn't write off the whole place because of one bad experience. There are lots of local folks that they employ and they keep shooting alive in a place that is less friendly. If the slow service was in guns, they only have two folks handling sales and one is a gunsmith with a ton of work. The other handles all of their online sales as well as all of the FFL paperwork for customers and members. Sometimes people are just busy and you don't know what's going on behind the scenes. I've been there when customers have been rude, pushy and demanding and the folks at Orvis have always been professional and steady. They've gone out of the way for me a number of times and really stand behind their products, even used gun sales.

I absolutely HATE it when I say "Thank You" to a store clkerk or cashier and their lackluster reply is "No problem" or "No prob..."

Dammit, I didn't expect it to be a PROBLEM - Just say "My pleasure" or anything that lets me know you appreciate my business!!

All of our problems should be so huge.

When I say thanks, they usually say thanks back. Works both ways. They NEVER stand mute. No problem works for me too.

I've been in both retail and wholesale customer service for over 40 years, some customers have become dear friends, they have come to my wedding and I have gone to their funerals. Some customers are just a$$holes and we have got into an argument within the first 10 seconds of interaction. Truth is, I take customer complaints with a grain of salt. Lots of different people out there and lots of different personalities. If you don't like the service, go somewhere else. Walk in customers are just the tip of the iceberg. In my business, we have tons of e-mail orders and phone orders to deal with. Just because someone isn't doting on you, doesn't mean they are ignoring you, maybe it does, in which case, vote with your feet.

I usually don’t take it personally. I’d hate to be the guy trying to hire somebody to work in an upscale specialty shop of any sort right now.

Best,
Ted