doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion Double Rifles, Paradox Guns & Gauge Rifles @ doublegunshop.com A double rifle retailed by Weisgerber in 9.3x72r

I've been working on getting a double rifle I picked up in 2023 to shoot properly. It's a German double rifle, presumably from pre-1912, that was retailed by the firm Weisgerber. I've posted pictures it on other folk's threads, but couldn't find a dedicated post by me on it on this forum. Barrels are stamped for gauge at 118/35.

The biggest challenge I've had with this rifle, beyond being an idiot and not listening more attentively when warned that the bore was likely tighter than 9.3mm/0.366", was that factory brass simply wouldn't chamber, even though a chamber cast showed this to be a 9.3x72. What I learned from you all was that prior to the standardization of the 9.3x72 case, there were lots of different variations out there, plus different rim sizes (German and English). Ultimately I was able to resize brass to fit by wrapping the brass with scotch tape roughly 3/4" up from the rim and then lubing as usual with Imperial Case lube and running the case through a full length sizer. Some cases needed a second wrap of tape slightly higher up the case. But now I have more than 50 cases that easily chamber.

Because the bore is actually for 0.358" bullets, loading required a mix of my CH4D 9.3 dies and a set of 357 Mag/Max dies. The 357 dies were needed to size roughly 1/2" of the neck down so it would hold a 180gr 0.358" JHP from Remington. And expand the mouth to start the bullet. Initial results at the range were awful. I've subsequently done a deep clean on the bores using a foam cleaner called Wipe-Out. It removes copper fouling without damage to the steel barrels. Then I switched to magnum primers. Lastly I retried the 180gr JHPs I'd started with, and got some 200gr JSPs made for the 35 Remington.

Based on the results I'm getting on target, I still need to try using a filler to see if that will reduce the high variation in velocity I'm seeing. I also want to slightly increase my powder charge as my rounds are roughly 120fps slower than factory specs and the barrels are shooting a little wide. But the left barrel is shooting really (really) well.

One last observation -- my rifle has single set triggers. The kind where you push them forward to set the trigger for much lighter pull. Whomever had this before me had those set triggers set to super light weights (ounces). On a cold day with cold hands they were too light. I also learned NOT to set the rear trigger before firing the front trigger, as the gun doubled (as any thinking person would expect!) Thankfully this wasn't one of my 450 or 500BPE doubles!

Some pics from the last range session

As I'm certain you know, 4 rounds is not much data to be basing decisions on but, you id get to shoot it!!!!. With older doubles it isn't unusual for the right barrel to be more worn that the left barrel. I've had a few where the left barrel shot anywhere form about the same to significantly better than the right.

Cris,
I have a couple suggestions. The first is try sizing the cases with the expander assembly removed to see if they then hold .358" bullets (a FL sizing die sizes the neck to a smaller than required diameter and the expander then opens it back up). If you are lucky, you might be able to avoid the second sizing operation. I use this trick with several calibers. You may have to bell the cases, but a shop made button in an extra "m" die will take care of that or an extra 38 spec expander button in an "m" die will work if adjusted to just bell the cases. I made my 2 die 9.3x 72R set into a 3-die set this way. Fillers are very controversial, but I found I can get uniform velocities when using a tuft of kapok tamped down on the powder charge. You will have to decide for yourself whether to use a filler or not, but if you do, don't just add it to an established load. You need to reduce the load and work it back up with the filler. I couldn't read the bottom line in the proof load stamped on the barrel, but it will tell you what bullet it was proofed for. If you use the filler your velocity may increase to your target level.

Sharps4590 -- I am happy it's shooting now. I agree that 4 shots isn't much. I didn't save pictures of all 3 targets, but total shots, including a pair that doubled, was 14. The left barrel was consistently on the bull (+/- my errors), while the right barrel was consistently right with a much wider grouping. Before the bores got a deep cleaning (so before this target) the velocity on the right barrel was consistently much (~100fps) lower than the left. After cleaning they are closer. Hoping that another deep clean plus filler in the case will further reduce velocity variations.

Der Ami - I appreciate the reminder to reduce the charge after introducing filler (I plan on using kapok which I acquired for this purpose). The proof markings read "2,7 gG.B.P. over an "N" and "S.t.m.G."

I may have mentioned it prior, „Raschsche Karreegravierung” or „Rasch’s squares engraving”.

Too, I would like to take the liberty & copy the above image & Voluntary load data up till 1912II think on this one??) stamped on the tubes and post it to a ongoing thread:

2,7 gG.B.P. over an "N" and S.t.m.G.

2,7 grammes of Gewehr Blättchenpulver(Military Flake) (St. m. G.-StahlmantelGeschoss).

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

I don't know if 2,7 grammes of G.B.P. was paired w/ 9,3X72R or not. I will have to search that too.

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

Yes, 2,7 grammes of G.B.P. just may be proper.

https://www.doublegunshop.com/forum...PSESSID=917bfe9791ae4229de6172d7d6ab57c4

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

Ah, here is Axel E. on the topic:

>>The quoted proofmarks point to a 9.3x72 R. 118,35 is the old gauge number for a barrel with a bore/land (not groove or bullet!) diameter up to .350”. so the gun was proofed pre-1912. It was proofed for a service charge of 2.7 gramm = 42 gr GBP = smokeless rifle flake powder. This was the contemporary smokeless load for the 9.3x72R with a 196 gr copper jacket bullet at 2020 fps. The 9.3x74R charge would be 3.5g = 54 gr. The case diameter, larger than .223 but smaller than .308, speaks for the x72R too. The scope mount bases, Albert Wilhelm Triebel’s variation of a claw mount, were added in the 1920s – 30s.<<

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

That is a lovely double and special double rifle. Are you going to bring it to the "Southern" in April--I would like to see it.

Just a bit more velocity in your loads should get you placing shots where you desire.

Kind Regards;
Stephen Howell

Hi Stephen,

I am planning on coming to the Southern, and possibly even embarrassing myself with my poor shot gunning skills. Let's exchange info beforehand. Years ago I think we may have discussed a rather special 10ga William Ford of mine. Was that you?

Chris