doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Concealed Third-Bite Fastener

A while back I was looking at this English Provincial BL that had a concealed third fastener.

I read that a lot of the Provincial Gunmaker/Retailer guns were actually made in Birmingham by various suppliers, the likes of Webley & Scott, etc. Webley & Scott Gun Production

Does anyone know if Webley & Scott made an action in the earlier years (1920-1930ish) utilizing a concealed third fastener, or was it just the screw grip action extended rib fastener during this period?

I found this article that states the concealed third-bite fastener was a Purdey patent dated to 1878. Patents of James Purdey

Interesting.



Thanks.

One sees it & variations on upper rung offerings. The >>Galand Nose<< or „Fermeture Liègeoise“(or Purdey Nose).

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

The next to last Lajot has what I believe to be the >>Galand Nose<<:

https://littlegun.be/arme%20belge/artisans%20identifies%20l/a%20lajot%20nicolas%20et%20cie%20fr.htm

Let me know if you can't find the fotos & I'll lift them & post another Lajot Pigeon Gun I know of that is on a thread.







Serbus,

Raimey
rse

Looks like that Lajot has an extended rear lump, too.

I've heard it called a Zanotti lump.

https://oplognosia.com/?p=14108

OWD

Very well could be....


>>Evoluzione: Ramponatura di Zanotti, ultimo tipo...... - „Triplice giro di Compasso" which received global accolades & possibly an award in 1906 @ the International Expo.<<

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

Concealed fastener is somewhat common on higher grade Belgian guns. Here are a Thirifays, Lajot, and Christophe.

Not higher end:



1972 vintage Ugartechea Falcon, very similar to the model 30, but, with 3” proof, which might explain why the hidden third fastener is there. It has a robust double underbite, I have my doubts the third fastener was actually needed.

Prior to the introduction of the 700, post WWII, Webley and Scott produced the 400 action, a very nice gun that was typically very well finished, but, not supplied with a hidden third bite, to my knowledge. That said, I would never say never on what one might find on a pre war English gun.

Best,
Ted

Ted, your Ugartechea may not be higher end, but it still speaks of quality. Good stuff.

I found my copy of the ‘The Modern Shotgun’, Vol. I, by Major Sir Gerald Burrard, pgs. 52, 53, 56, he states and I quote, re: the concealed third fastener, “The third general type of top extension is a plain horizontal extension which fits into a slot in the action face and is then held down by a bolt which slides forwards above the extension. This type obviously cannot be fitted at the very top of the barrels or there would be no room for the holding down bolt, and it is frequently fitted about halfway between the top and bottom of the barrels. In this position it is popular with some of the makers of best-grade guns who want to make use of an additional grip in some special gun designed for heavy charges, as it can be made to protrude through slots in the extractors, and so is partially hidden by the extractors. On this account it is sometimes termed a “concealed” extension, and it certainly has the advantage over extensions of the doll’s head and cross-bolt type that it doesn’t interfere in any way with the work of loading. ...In high-grade guns where an extra grip is thought advisable the “concealed” plain extension is excellent, for in guns on the building of which the best workmanship is expended the bolt can be relied upon to fit.” He then refers the reader to a plate showing a Purdey SL shotgun action with barrels as an example, pg. 174.

Here's what I would guess to be a True Purdey Nose, pressed into Service in Ferlach during the British Occupation Period:

https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=647776

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

That one looks stout.

Best,
Ted