doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com SxS competitions

IMHO, if you are shooting for anything other than honors only your shoot must have some solid rules! Otherwise, you could have examples like a 28 gauger shooting 1 ounce loads, etc.
Shoots with awards/prizes should specify gauge/load requirements for a specific handicap. Most of us are shooting for fun rather than a living, and clear rules do help!

Rules, There should be ''NO RULES''. Just shoot the Dam things. IF a guy wants to shoot a 410 against a 12ga., that's his choice, ''NO HANDICAPS''. If a shell fails to fire, just shoot again!
I have seen guys lose a shoot , even thou He hit more birds than the other guy because of ''RULES''. Would you bring a Knife to a Gun Fight ?

Dirty Harry

As Hal Hare says, most of us are not shooting for a living. I quit shooting for a living, what year was that??

I’ve seen guys (and gals) lose shoots with more X’s on the score card too! It’s because THEY CHEATED!!😆😆😆

I doubt anyone would ever know, or care, but…

I would draw no joy, nor feel any pride, spanking the ass of a bunch of old men at a sxs shoot with .410 loads greater than 1/2 oz.

And here’s why.

There are great .410 competitors out there, and they are crack shots.
I want to equal, or beat them on a level playing field.
And I hope, they want the same vs me.
I shoot the same .410 loads all the time. NSCA qualifying ammunition. Nothing special. Never trying to get over on anyone by strategy, just trying to break every bird, one at a time.

If you look at the numbers at most shoots, they are very segmented between accomplished shots, and casual shooters. The guy setting the course sets it to entertain his guests, and hopes they come back again, or maybe even join his club. Our interests don’t really align 100%.

That need to entertain gives a crack .410 shot a big leg up.
If he’s a 70% of his 12 gauge score shooter on NSCA type competitive courses, then he’s smoking 80% or more at a sxs fun shoot.
That means he leaves all the casual shots way behind. And is near HOA if he’s good.

Doing that or better, with special ammunition, doesn’t do anything for me.

But hey, some people will stuff a fish with lead to win a boat.

Not quite sure who your diatribe is directed at. Some might think they know. That's good. But be careful, don't twist your ankle getting off that high horse.

I've personally never shot any .410 loads over 1/2 oz. at a sub-gauge competition. I espouse heavier-than-normal-for-bore loadings in my hunting .410s, but that's a whole 'nuther ball game.

But, give me 20 on a hundred with a .410 bore at a typical S X S shoot at I'll leave the bigger bores home every time. I have won HOA at these shoots before by doing just that. Do I feel like I cheated in some way because I accepted what they offered in the way of a handicap? That'd be stupid. I settled the issue of winners supposing to feel some sort of guilt at winning a long time ago. That's stupid, too. Casual shooters will always be competing with more serious shots at this kind of shoot. It's the casual shooters that usually set these kind of shoots up, anyway. Seldom is the shoot organizer a serious competitor in the event.

It boils down to this. When in Rome, shoot Roman candles . . . .

I knew I could count on you Stan.

Hint: Fair competition (whether the prize is large or small) has nothing to do with you.


I will grind it a little finer.

Online video is promoting a form of .410 competition that is at odds with the sanctioning bodies here in the US.

It is also rising in popularity.

Which Increases the pressure on shoot managers to present a fair and equal opportunity for all their guests.

It is pitiful that people sneak around with special cartridges (no matter the gauge class) in their desperate hope to win a paper certificate with their name on it.

At the first Southern Side by Side, I entered the .410 event with a Briley tubed 20 gauge Parker. At that time tubed guns were legal at the Southern. I knew the big boys would be using 3" ammunition, so I put some 3" in my bag. I shot the first station with 2 1/2" ammo because it was a series of easy straightaways from an elevated stand. I ran that station and for the rest of the shoot, I shot the 2 1/2" ammo, forgetting I had the 3" ammo in my bag. I had never shot any 3" ammunition in this gun, and, later I was to find that the Briley tubes had 2 1/2" chambers and would not chamber a 3" shell. I won the .410 event at that shoot against some talented competitors. My .410 shells were loaded with 1/2 ounce of #9 shot. As I recall, my screw in chokes were probably improved modified and full. At the time I entered, it was late in the day. J.D.Shank was in the lead at the time with a very high score. He asked if he could walk around the course with me. I said "fine", knowing he wanted to make sure I didn't pad my score. I had his score beat by a bird if I ran the last station, a series of rabbits. The trap was throwing broken birds, one after the other. After expending nearly a dozen shells on broken birds, I finally got some good birds and ran the station.

True, last year at the Southern I questioned if it would be 3" or 2 1/2". I was told it was my choice.

But, it does have to do with YOU? YOU should have more sayso than someone else as to what it "fair"?


Perhaps you need to change out your sieve, CZ. Sanctioning bodies here never have had any power over what a local S X S shoot decides as to the shoot rules. That's part of the attraction for many of the informal competitors, less "rules". They seem to be happy with that, and in some areas it appears to be growing. Guess you'd better find a way to deal with your displeasure at it. Unless, unless, they actually start listening to The Grey Man and his "words of wisdom".