doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Bringing a scope overseas

I have brought a range finder and binos in carry on when traveling overseas to Europe and had no issues. I keep them with a friend of mine so I dont have to bring them back and forth. nothing too expensive but they are there and I dont have to bring others.
I shoot rifles there also. target shoot. I have use of a rifle but it has a fixed 4x on it and I want to put a better optic on it for 300M shooting with my aging eyes. a $500 Vortex variable. can I bring that in carry on and not have an issue. anyone have any experience with that. Its not a military grade optic.

Brian,

When you ask "is it an issue", do you mean will it break in my luggage, or is it legal to bring into the country?

I just spent a good amount of time determining if it was legal for me to ship a barrel for a Marlin 1893 in 32-20 to Canada.

Turns out, it's not.

Rob

We have a group of simpletons that populate this site, that can’t/won’t grasp that things change, laws are subject to interpretation, and people who make their living molding the great unwashed masses into compliance will always need examples to demonstrate to their overlords they are a necessary component of the bureaucracy. Asking the wrong people for answers leads to the situation that Rob discovered. I’d suggest you take any hard answer you get here with a grain of salt.

I never tried to move a scope between two different countries. I wouldn’t even know where to look to find out if there were restrictions on doing so. No doubt someone will tell you to just do it, I’d say figure out if you are OK with it being seized, and how comfortable you are with being locked up before you try something like that.

If it were me, I’d look into perhaps shipping it to the same guy who has your range finder and binocs. The shipping company should at least have an idea if it is legal for them to do it. I’ve had good luck on several (not many, but, more than one) international shipments with DHL, but, they were going to South America, not Europe.

I wish I had or could come up with a hard, fast, answer for you. Sorry, I can’t.

Good luck, and absolutely do let us know what happens, and what you discover.

Best,
Ted

Here is a link to a Vortex scope at that $499 price point. https://www.opticsplanet.com/vortex-venom-5-25x56mm-riflescopes.html and attached to that is the following https://www.opticsplanet.com/export.html

And what is the legal definition of a "military grade optic"? Either buy a scope in the country your friend lives in or have him buy a scope if possession in that country is regulated.

If the courts of either the US or whatever country you go to to hunt get involved, it's going to cost you a LOT more than $500 before you're done.

Good information, except the very last line where they warn you that export laws vary and are “complex”.

You are on your own.

Best,
Ted

You cannot legally take a scope out of the US. I said legally. How I know is that when I was importing from Italy, my contact who I purchased guns from ( he has a shop in Brescia) asked if I could get him MEC loaders for shotguns and some rifle scopes. Was much cheaper here then him buying them in Italy. Found out that I needed an export license. Said to the Feds, wait this is stuff I can buy at a store and walk out with. Yes, but going out of the country for those items you need a license.

Now, if you put one in a bag on a plane I donot think anybody will care.

My difference was the quantity and having to ship it commercially

JOhn
Quality Arms

Taking them out of county and selling or shipping to sell is quite different than taking one on a rifle. As for carry on, I can't guess, but I doubt the employee at the counter truly knows either.

The best thing to do is contact the proper federal agency. It will not be BATF since this is out of country, nor is it likely the State Department as it would be if you were sending a barrel or other gun part (over $100 value) out of country. Not sure who controls international flight rules. When I wanted to send a barrel to Harry in England for his Borchardt, I could not find a definitive answer so I sent a note to one of my congress critters and they not only told me the correct department to contact, but also the correct office to call or email. Of course, rules in the country you are going to may be an issue too, but I would simply send it on/with the checked rifle and not have a worry in the world. It is the carry-on part that will be the problem and you have no reason to push the envelope. A scope on a hunting rifle is not an issue, as has been shown by thousands of successful travelers every year.

Don't assume anything. Security clerks in other countries may or may not be cogent. On one return trip from Argentina to the USA I changed planes in Santiago. My luggage went through the x-ray device and I was called to the side by an agitated Chilean security guard. He showed me a tornado brush that was packed in my suitcase and demanded an explanation. In my poor Spanish I finally convinced him that it wasn't a weapon.

My advice, if you can't get a clear answer, is to ship it ahead to whoever you will be hunting with.

At what point did the OP say he was taking a rifle with him?

Best,
Ted

When he said he leaves his range finder and binos over there. Rifle being conspicuously absent. If he is not taking a rifle, then just put it in checked baggage - even easier to do without a firearm.

It’s never good to call people simpleton’s.
I don’t know where the OP wants to take his rifle scope to, but he can start here.

https://blog.easyexport.net/the-5-requirements-for-exporting-firearm-optics-legally?hs_amp=true

Just remember leaving the country with some thing is an export, and returning with it is an import. Additionally the reverse is true for the country you are visiting
it is being imported to that country and then when you leave it is being exported

He is not exporting if it is for his own use. He can fill out a 4457 and take out and back without a problem.

That’s funny. I read that he had use of a rifle, but, didn’t like the 4X optics on it, and wanted to bring something better. Not a rifle. A scope.

You advised him to just take the scope, based on what reading of the law? The Optics Planet website was far more cautious about how scopes are treated in travel and other countries.

Best,
Ted

At what point did he say he was exporting? The 4457 is for things you own before you leave and do not sell. You do understand that, correct? Surely, you have used 4457s before.

There are things you own that are not legal to own or use in Europe. The use of the 4457 is down stream of finding out what the law says about scopes, types of scopes, legal use of scopes, traveling with scopes, and if there might be differences between what the locals are permitted versus visitors. The 4457 doesn’t mean Jack to a European Customs agent, it only allows you to document to US authorities that you left with a piece of property, and returned with same.

What makes you positive that bringing a scope is actually permitted for a foreign national where he is going? Have you done it?

I’m still curious as to why you would believe, from reading his post, that there was a rifle going with him.

Best,
Ted

NOpe, it does not mean jack. He still is not importing.

What the hell are you talking about?

Start with the rifle, you told him to bolt the scope down to, and take to Europe.

Tell us how you got there.

Then we can move on to the rest of your nonsense.

Best,
Ted

__________________________________________________________________
The simpleton, cometh.

You tell us, Ted. You know everything and that way you will be happy. If I said the sun will rise in the east tomorrow you would argue about it.

I don’t want to waste too much time on this. I have a busy day ahead of me, but it is like this.

As I stated, any item that you go from one country to another, and then return, has four legs to the transaction. It doesn’t matter if it’s a can of beans.

it is imperative that the traveler determine on the front end what the requirements are for each of the four parts.

If you have connecting flights (such as a layover in Iceland, so that you can go salmon fishing for a couple days on your way to oh, I don’t know, let’s say some driven game days in the border countries), you have to be sure that you are obeying their law as well.

And you need to contact the people who enforce those laws, and get the proper certificates from them so that you don’t have a problem on your way in, or you’re way out.

Optics are an interesting item because some are controlled and some are not.

That’s why the optics planet website says things so vaguely.

But at the same time you can go to any stalker website for people that shoot deer etc., in Europe, and find out that they commonly buy optics from optics planet, and then have them shipped directly to their homes. in that case it’s primarily because the optics that they are purchasing are not the kind that are on the US list for non-exportable. AND they are not precluded from their importation either. But the transaction is still an export. And the receipt is still an import.
They pay their local duties and fees when they pick it up.

I wish I knew where the OP is headed, as then it would be easy to discern which laws apply.

On the US side, which is an in, and an out, if the scope is exportable (I haven’t looked it up the US website) the 4453 and a purchase receipt would be adequate for an out and an in.
But, since we don’t know where it’s heading, can’t really say what their rules might be.
But they’ll still have an in and an out controlled by their CBP people.

If this is just an effort to avoid a checked bag fee, remember most International flights include a checked bag.

The link to the online scope retailer was gift wrapped for you.

Here's what I went through to find out about the barrel I wanted to ship to Canada.
As I stated above, this is controlled by the Bureau of Industry and Security.

Telescopic sites are governed by FC1...

Scroll down until you see 0A504 Opt...follows (see List of Items Controlled). .

It's the equivalent of about two pages down.

Then go to the country list, find your country, and see if FC won has an on it.

If it does, the item cannot be imported.

Whether or not carrying a scope in your suitcase, qualifies as importing, I don't know.

As you can see, Austria will let you import a scope because there's no X in the FC1 column. Same with Germany and the UK.

Canada says no.

You should be fine bringing a scope like that in your carry-on. I’ve travelled with similar gear before and never had any issues, especially since it’s just an optic and not a controlled item like a firearm. Something like Vortex optics are usually treated the same way as your phone or laptop by the people who check what you bring on a plane in the United States and in most airports in Europe.. It is still a good idea to check the rules of the country you are going to visit, so you do not have any problems when you get there.