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#656376 01/18/25 03:03 PM
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Argo44 Offline OP
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Some 500 years old. Worth a read and if Dr. Drew can analyze a piece of one of those guns, metallurgy will be served.

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https://www.yahoo.com/news/archaeologists-dug-oldest-gun-ever-161736658.html


Baluch are not Brahui, Brahui are Baluch
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That find has had significant press in Arizona.
The canon was bronze.
The abstract of the article published 11-2024 is here
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10761-024-00761-7
and here; some of the images are accessible (you'll need to cut and paste)
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/386017359_Coronado's_Cannon_A_1539-42_Coronado_Expedition_Cannon_Discovered_in_Arizona

In 711 the Moors (Muslim N. African Berbers and Arabs) gained control over most of Spain, until 1212, and were not defeated in Grenada until 1492. Arab traders were all over the known world, had access to metalsmiths from North Africa to Anatolia to India to China, and that technology made it to Spain.
c. 1000 pattern welded sword blades were produced in Toledo, Spain
Jan. 28, 1132 - The first documented record of cannons used on the battlefield, when General Han Shizhong used Huochong to capture a city in Fujian.
c. 1300 - Iron “hand cannon” barrels were first made.
c. 1580 Lock ‘a la Miquelet, the flint-lock, was invented in Spain

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News about this has been going around everywhere, even on facebook.

As I recall, it was not made in America, but is the oldest gun to be recorded in America.


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From the article:

Seymour said the cannons appear to have been forged in the same foundry in either Mexico or the Caribbean, due to their relatively poor quality and lack of maker’s mark. If true, it would make the cannons the oldest surviving firearms manufactured in the Americas.

The evidence is strong, Seymour said, but analysis to confirm it would require cutting into the cannons.

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Ted

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Ah. My mistake. I was going from memory. Obviously faulty.


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How much choke?


May God bless America and those who defend her.
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Originally Posted by Stanton Hillis
How much choke?


The choke isn't important. What we really need to know, for ed, how thick is the barrel wall ahead of the chamber?


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Not thick enough, apparently. They found two, and one was blowed up:

A second cannon, but damaged

Last year, Seymour found a second cannon at the same site. This one lay in an area that appears to have been where most of the fighting took place, with abundant projectiles and other artifacts.

This one was fired in the attack, Seymour said. The side of it had blown out, possibly due to faulty construction.

“What we're thinking is that they possibly did kind of a 'Hail Mary' type situation, overloaded it with powder and shot to try to keep from being overrun,” she said.

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Ted

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Argo44 Offline OP
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Drew definitely needs to investigate this metallurgy failure. You don't want old cannons blowing up in your face.


Baluch are not Brahui, Brahui are Baluch
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Parrott rifled canon. Wall thickness looks OK wink
"Perils of Gunnery.; The Frequent Bursting of the Parrott Guns During Practice", New York Times. April 20, 1889

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