doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion German & Austrian Sporting Guns @ doublegunshop.com Dreyse 11mm Double Rifle - what did I buy?

Dreyse 11mm Double Rifle - what did I buy? centerfire or needle gun?

This came up for sale - I like unusual double rifles, so I bought it. But now I'm hoping its not a needle-gun. I won't have it in hand for a couple weeks. Meantime, Can anyone here tell me what I bought. If centerfire, how does it work? What cartridge would it shoot? Any idea when it was made?

https://www.buckstix.com/buckpics/dreyse11mm-000.jpg

Can't access picture. Probably my computer.

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

Looks like a needle-gun. The long breeches would be to accommodate the needles driven by coil springs.

If it is 11mm it could be made to use the Chassepot cartridge. If so I think Chap on Bloke on the Range did a YouTube video about making ammunition. You may have to go to Patreon or another site to find it now as YouTube sometimes removes “ammunition making” videos.

buckstix,
I can't tell from the photos (thanks to Raimey for posting them), if it is center fire cartridge there should be some type of extractor present. A chamber cast will be necessary to determine the cartridge, and even that may not work. It won't make much difference anyway since the local "Hook and Bullet" store won't have any to sell. You will have to find or make bullets and cases, then make your own; in which case you can give it whatever generic name you like. Ammunition might be easier if it is needle-fire. You can't load NFB in a needle-fire, however.
Mike

not sure why some can see the photos and open the links ... and some can't.

Thanks for the reply
A few years ago I made needle fire paper cartridges for an 11mm French Chassepot rifle. It was a real, real, big pain in the Azz? Really dirty and many ignition failures.

That's why I am hoping this is some type of center-fire rifle built on an early needle fire frame. One of the members on another forum agrees its for an 11mm centerfire cartridge. It looks like there are extractors at the bottom of the chambers ... and also there is a cartridge trap in the butt plate for 3 cartridges, that looks like its for rimmed cartridges.

My browser calls your site a potential security risk for some reason. Maybe it thinks "buckstix" sounds like porno?

Yeah, it wears German Proofmarks.

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

Yes, extractors....

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

buckstix,
The extractors confirm it is a centerfire, and the proof marks are post 1893. Many German cartridges of this age and caliber were based on some version of the 11.15x60R Mauser Base (MB) case and you might be lucky enough that it is actually the Mauser cartridge itself. The rim recess cut in the extractor seems to be for a thick rim, such as on a MB case also. A chamber cast may confirm the cartridge length; however, some early chambers didn't have a clear separation between case neck and chamber throat. They may have used a heeled bullet or patched bullet with the patch extending over the neck or simply depended upon obturation to expand the bullet enough to fit the grooves. At this late date, you will have to use your best guess, if your chamber is in this form and if it doesn't work, try something else. The 11.15x58R Austrian Werndel also used a MB type rim, but the head size was about 0.545", whereas the Mauser cartridge was about 0.515". This difference will show up in a chamber cast (the chamber for each cartridge will be larger than the head diameter of that cartridge, sometimes significantly larger by today's standards). Have fun.
Mike