doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion German & Austrian Sporting Guns @ doublegunshop.com Dreyse 11mm Double Rifle - what did I buy?

I had the seller take some additional pictures of the breech -
looks like this will be a standard 11.15x60R cartridge. If not, I also load for the Werndl.


https://www.buckstix.com/buckpics/breech-000.jpg

Buckstix:

About 1/2 the time I visit your thread, the images appear for some reason. There must be a filter / access issue. On the link you provide, there is always a site safety certificate issue(not secure). This is always the case.

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

Axel E. on Dreyse origins after some admonishment as typical:

>>.......N.v.Dreyses gun had an eccentrical cam activated by an underlever. It slid the barrels first forward and then out to the side. Insofar it is more a relative of the Gastinne-Teschner-Collath slide and tilt actions than of the much later Stendebach side-swinging action. At the Dreyse, Soemmerda factory these side-swinging needlefires were soon superseded by Franz v.Dreyse's "improved" needlefires that worked on the basic Gastinne slide and tilt principle. The Stendebach guns were undoubtedly made by the Suhl guntrade. And:there was no side-swinging design by Behr, though both competed with similar up-down breaking designs.
This gun is made to Friedrich Stendebach's last gun action patent, DRP # 229533 of 1907. If you are looking for an "older predecessor" of this action, you have to go back to George Jeffries of Norwich British patent # 22 of 1862. Both the Jeffries' and the Stendebach actions are effectively break-open actions turned sideways. On both actions the barrels are held to the breechface by the dovetail-shaped underlug going sideways into a corresponding cut in the action bar. In plan this lug is curved on the Stendebach, wedge-shaped on the Jeffries. (BTW, I am well aware of the difference between Jeffries and Jeffery). To allow the barrels to move away from the breechface both actions have their hinges set over to the left, beyond the centerline of the left barrel. The purpose of both inventors was to get away from the up-down stresses that try to "break open" a conventional gun.
The Behr vs. Stendebach patent dispute was about other designs, Behr's DRP 154950 of 1904 being for a cattlekiller that showed some similarities to both Behr's and Stendebach's designs for unconventional break-open rifles.
Apparently Friedrich Stendebach's action designs, though very strong, were not very successful, reflected by the rarity of Stendebach patent guns and the confusing and muddled history of his many companies. "Friedrich Stendebach, Beiersgrund 3, Suhl" Gun and bullet factory, is mentioned from 1899 on, trademark "STENDA". By 1906 he also had a bullet factory in Leipzig-Gohlis. At the start of WW1 a "Stendebach & Co." existed too, making guns to Stendebach's and Kersten's designs. The "& Co" here was no other than Gustav Kersten, retired from the army. Remember, Franz Jaeger had refused to make guns to his uncle's designs, preferring his own. This Stendebach & Co. went into receivership in 1916, the receiver being Gustav Loesche, Wilhelmstr. 13, Magdeburg, founded 1873 by father Alfred Loesche, "Hofb�chsenmacher" = gunmaker to some court since 1911, mostly a dealer in guns and ammo as he advertized a "gunsmith shop inhouse". The business relations Loesche-Stendebach were intensive before and after the failing of "Stendebach & Co."
Apparently Stendebach then teamed up with the former "maker" of Kersten guns, as there was a "Vierordt, Stendebach & Cie. GmbH" with branches in Frankfurt a.Main, S�ckingen, Gm�nden a.M., Suhl and finally Augsburg. To addto the confusion, there was also a STENDA-Werke GmbH,Amtmannsweg 37, Suhl, owner Max Stendebach, in the 1920s. Augsburg seems to have been the last station of Friedrich Stendebach. Here he offered in the 1930s "original Stendebach guns", Mauser actioned rifles and cartridges and bullets of his own design. For his Mauser rifles he had his own proprietary cartridge, the forgotten 8x71 Stendebach Ideal M30 with his own "Ideal Universal" bullet, a complicated softnose with a hard and a soft lead core, separated by a steel ball. Stendebach's most successful design, in fact the only one still remembered, was his Stendebach Ideal shotgun slug.<<

https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=456015

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

„Johann Christian Nicolaus Dreyse's father was a locksmith and determined that Johann to follow in his footsteps so at the age of 14 he began the apprentice program in his father's shop. Johann fought it at every step wanting to devote his time to studies. In 1805 he completed the program and headed off to Leipzig, Dresden, the Rhine area followed by Paris where he landed up in Pauli's shop where he stayed till 1814,when he returned to his father's workshop with the determination to develop a breechloader, which Pauli had abandoned. Circa 1821 he married and about the same time partnered with a merchant named Kronbiegel making buttons, nails, etc. Kronbiegel soon expired and in 1824 he took on a partner and the shingle read Dreyse & Collenbusch(Carl/Karl). In 1840 & 1841 the facility was built in S�mmerda. Kronbiegel looks to have had a son named Bruno Kronbiegel designed things other than sporting weapons with D&C. In 1900 the concern was in a terrible financial bind and on March 31st 1901 Rheinmetall absorbed them."

https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=456015
Serbus,

Raimey
rse

Unless I find something else that changes my mind on the chambering, I would wave you off on this DR unless you are a handloader. I say this because I am led to believe the tubes are regulated for the 15 gramme bullet.

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

Not sure what you mean by "I would wave you off on this DR" - it has been purchased, and I am waiting for delivery. Perhaps you haven't read many of my posts over the years. I load for over 300 different calibers and cast and swage bullets for all the German calibers, 11mm being the most common.

Ah, my error; disregard that as I just do not know how that happened. Somehow that text bled over from a PM......

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

That happens sometimes - I'm ready with both 43 Mauser & 11mm Werndl ammo - can't wait till it gets here. Should be here tomorrow Sat Jan 4

Well, I got the rifle in hand today. This is a marvelous little double rifle. Action is tight as new when made in the 1890s, and it operates silky smooth. There is no doubt - this is a center-fire cartridge double rifle as witnessed by a chamber cast. Its in 11.15x60R caliber (43 Mauser) I can't wait to take it to the range to see how it shoots. But it may be a while. Outdoor temperature were 10 degrees today.

https://www.buckstix.com/buckpics/43-cast.jpg

Well, back from the field test, and I am tremendously happy with this little double's performance. Its ready to go for next year's deer hunting.

https://www.buckstix.com/buckpics/11MM-TARG-1.jpg